[lazarus] Asserts and other stuff

Thomas R. Wilk Tom_Wilk at compuserve.com
Fri Jun 25 01:33:54 EDT 1999


I program Java and Delphi and I agree with what you've said.   Although
I've done alot more Delphi than Java, your absolutely right that it's a
*NIGHTMARE* to do a good Java GUI.   In particular, I find the use of
Layout Managers to be a VERY time consuming endevour.   I use JBuilder and
its more or less forcing me to purchase a new machine for home.   My
Pentium 233MMX with 128MB RAM is just too slow.   You really can't do
JBuilder Java GUI developement without at least a high-end Pentium II
machine.   You need a minimum of 128MB RAM, I recommend 256MB, especially
if your interested in developing Java Servlets. 

I'm new to Linux, Free Pascal, GTK and Lazarus.   I am moving this week,
but as soon as I settle in I'll drive into the details and see what it's
all about.   Hopefully, I can find an area in which I can contribute.

Do you think the Lazarus project can coax the Megido Project folks to
completely bail out and join Lazarus?  You (Lazarus) guys seem MUCH more
together than the Megido Team.    It would seem to make sense to focus
efforts.   Pascal Forever!

Java Problem #4:   Sun is NOT doing a good job of promoting third party
tools and reusable components for Java.  They are not very good at
encouraging independent Java development partners.  Everything new in
JavaLand is centered around a new SUN Java API.   Like you said, the APIs
are powerful, but Java will never be as easy to develop in (especially
GUIs) as Visual Basic or Delphi until Sun stops monopolizing all the
innovation.   We can all bad-mouth Microsoft and Bill Gates, but MS is
excellent at developer and third party relations.   

I'm interested in researching how to develop cross platform apps using the
Free Pascal Compiler.   Is it possible now?   Or only after the Lazarus
project is further along?

That's all for now...

Tom Wilk
Tom_Wilk at compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:lazarus at miraclec.com
>As someone who has two shelves full of Java books and more Java compilers 
and IDE's than Bill Joy, I can honestly say that Java will not be going 
anywhere soon.  Try as they might, they will never get compiled speed for 
Java in the *GUI* arena.  Not unless they make swing a bunch of DLL's that 
internally call X or GTK.  And I find that highly unlikely.  Java also has
number of other problems that will keep it at bay for several years:

1.  The language is simple, but the construction of programs (especially 
when considering swing) is not.  It takes hundreds of lines of Java to get
JTable working well.  Besides the sheer lines of code, the way in which AWT

works, with adapters and listeners and so forth, plus Swing's pluggable 
architecture, is a *nightmare* for GUI IDE designers.  Take any Java IDE
there and you will see the same thing: poor integration with Swing.  
VisualAge, my favorite tool, is still locked into Swing 1.0.3.  JBuilder 
can't redraw anything the same way twice.  Visual Cafe has very little 
"visual" to it.

2.  The best part of Java right now is the APIs.  As brutal as the amount
code can be, I love the API's.  They are powerful and flexible.  But NONE
it can't be done in a well written Pascal API. You said yourself that Java 
is a rip-off of Pascal.  Well, you're right.  And if you really want a 
challenge, instead of rewriting the VCL, rewrite the JCL (Java Class 
Libraries, not Job Control Language :).

3.  Microsoft hates Java about as much as it hates Linux.  Enough said.

Anyway, Java is still a long way from being ubiquitous.  We have ample 
opportunity to shape Lazarus into whatever we want.  If the VCL is
then don't implement it.  Want adapters on top of the VCL?  Go for it.  FPC

compiles as fast as Java, is as clean a language (but boy what I wouldn't 
give for the compiler guys to implement checked exceptions), and GTK isn't 
going anywhere soon.  A good abstraction of the VCL/whatever will make us 
plenty independent of GTK anyway.

Besides, we do this for the joy of it, not for profit.  If something better

comes along in a few months/years, we can jump on board that ship.  In the 
meantime we can make a really nice IDE.

Besides, I just spent the better part of the day figuring out the Pascal 
grammar in hopes of writing the Object Browser/Intellisense portion of 
Lazarus.  I'm going to be bummed if nobody is around to use it!

John Margaglione
tenor at xnet.com

"Buck up little camper, don't let Stalin get to ya!"
-from "Better Off Dead"

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