[Lazarus] Is Lazarus project in a downward spiral?

[Doug Chamberlin]

I agree with everything Tom has said. I hope everyone takes it to heart.

I'm one of those who is lurking and waiting for a more stable project 
before jumping in and joining the team as a volunteer. I've tried both 
FPC and Lazarus and found them wanting for all the reasons that have 
already been mentioned. I have no immediate need to use them and 
therefore have the luxury of experimenting only but I would like to 
commit to using them full time. At the rate things are going I'll 
probably end up using Embarcadero's coming cross platform solution 
before using FPC/Lazarus. That would be a shame.

A couple of further specific comments:

I see a bunch of bugs reported and developers posting that those are 
fixed. But unless I wade in and install SVN and figure out how to use it 
to update my local source and figure out how to compile FPC and Lazarus 
I cannot make use of those bug fixes. So I'm stuck with the choice of 
installing a rather old stable version and living with the bugs it has 
(that I know have been "fixed") or waiting until a new stable version is 
packaged up. I choose to wait (again, because I have no compelling 
reason not to). But that, in turn, keeps me away from the project so 
that I cannot learn more about it and cannot help out because I'm 
forever "on the outside looking in".

I have avoided CVS, and so far successfully avoided SVN, because I see 
them as rather old technology. In contrast, Git is an amazingly powerful 
and fresh look at the problem. I'd rather start out using Git. But when 
Git was proposed to the FPC/Laz projects it was rather soundly brushed 
aside. Another reason for me to stay on the sidelines.

When 2.4.0 was released I thought, Ok, maybe I should start with that. 
So I went about installing and building and learning my way around. Then 
came to a crashing halt when I learned you could not build Lazarus using 
the 2.4.0 FPC. Huh? Made me wonder if these teams even talk to each 
other. Another reason to hold off diving in so I turned aside and got 
involved in other things.

I've been to the web sites and looked for installation instructions and 
tutorial help but things are scattered and not easy to find. When this 
is mentioned on the mailing lists people respond with direct links to 
the items being sought. Yes, that is helpful, but the larger point seems 
to be missed. These web sites need to be improved specifically with an 
eye toward the new convert. There is some talk of doing that but it is 
rather piecemeal. I think a larger initiative is called for.

I've read the testaments of those who have found FPC/Lazarus to be 
production ready. (In fact, those are the things that keep me 
interested!) But I get the impression that those testaments are being 
received by the core teams as evidence that all is well. If so, please 
re-read Tom's message and find some real answers to those questions 
because I think there are more people waiting for the big symbolic "1.0" 
than there are that have found a way to make the current code work for 
them. Reaching 1.0 is important not so much because a 1.0 release would 
contain major improvements to the code but more because it would mean 
the projects have matured organizationally. That is what I'd like to see.

Doug C.