From aaa5500 at ya.ru  Fri Sep  1 07:29:42 2017
From: aaa5500 at ya.ru (Alexey)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 08:29:42 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] TControl.ChangeScale impl
Message-ID: <dca439d1-d285-8c58-cb10-d0a71b6f704b@ya.ru>

There is such procedure. why not to rewrite it via call to 
AutoAdjustLayout. to not have "dup" code.

procedure TControl.ChangeScale(Multiplier, Divider: Integer);
var
   R: TRect;
begin
   if Multiplier <> Divider then
   begin
     ScaleConstraints(Multiplier, Divider);
     if not ParentFont then
       Font.Height := MulDiv(GetFontData(Font.Reference.Handle).Height, 
Multiplier, Divider);
     R := BaseBounds;
     if (Self is TCustomForm) and (GetParentForm(Self, True) = Self) then
     begin
       //Dont change Left,Top if this is the topmost form
       R.Right := R.Left + MulDiv(R.Right-R.Left, Multiplier, Divider);
       R.Bottom := R.Top + MulDiv(R.Bottom-R.Top, Multiplier, Divider);
     end
     else
     begin
       R.Left := MulDiv(R.Left, Multiplier, Divider);
       R.Top := MulDiv(R.Top, Multiplier, Divider);
       R.Right := MulDiv(R.Right, Multiplier, Divider);
       R.Bottom := MulDiv(R.Bottom, Multiplier, Divider);
     end;
     BoundsRect := R;
   end;
end;

-- 
Regards,
Alexey


From bo.berglund at gmail.com  Fri Sep  1 07:35:15 2017
From: bo.berglund at gmail.com (Bo Berglund)
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2017 07:35:15 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Dangers of using Move command to insert data into a
	TBytes array?
References: <alobqchkel7nargq427fgrhmihdkble29o@4ax.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1708300946310.30627@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <7grhqcdk869kvbsmiugnu6k4ocsu3ql53p@4ax.com>

On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 09:48:47 +0200 (CEST), Michael Van Canneyt via
Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

>> I must use Move() for handling other data of various kinds like packed
>> records and such too...
>
>If the packed records contain managed data (ansistrings and the like): 
>Don't use move.

Thanks for the advice!
I now have looked over the code and found that the records used are
fixed length, but there exist in some places a few ID members that are
supposed to hold an array of AnsiChar, like in this example:

  TSSCmdDirRec = packed record
		CmdProgNum:	shortint;
		InUse:			shortint;
		ProgID: array[0..16] of AnsiChar; // <== here!
		meastype:		byte;
		numSteps:		word;
		MUX:				shortint;
		numElecs:		word;
		progLoc: 		cardinal;
		ArrayID:		shortint;
	end;

These records are equivalents of the C structs used on an embedded
data collection system, which sends data organized in this way in
straight binary form. In the case of ProgID it is defined there as:

char     progID[17];

What I do is that I receive the binary data into a buffer, then use
Move() to copy the data into a local varable of the record type and
finally I use a procedure to switch endianness on members which are
multi-byte.
This has worked fine until Unicode was introduced in Delphi/FPC when I
tried to fix it using AnsiChar and AnsiString as appropriate.
But no string type in these records, just arrays of AnsiChar...

Anyway, I'm glad I checked with you. I initially had calculated the
number of bytes in my Move operation erroneously. Now fixed.
I did not see any side effects of it though, probably just pure luck.

-- 
Bo Berglund
Developer in Sweden


From andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com  Fri Sep  1 20:23:56 2017
From: andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com (Andrea Mauri)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 20:23:56 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] TCheckListBox OnClickCheck on OSX
Message-ID: <7949d4ff-5a22-d634-4297-5e3f9e82b3ca@gmail.com>

I noticed a different behaviour of OnCLickCheck event between win and osx.
In win I can do the following, Since ItemIndex is updated before 
ClickCheck event:
procedure TForm1.CheckListBox1ClickCheck(Sender: TObject);
begin
   label1.caption:= inttostr(CheckListBox1.ItemIndex);
end;

while on OSX the ItemIndex I got in OnClickCheck is not updated. If I 
have not clicked on any item before ItemIndex is -1.

On OSX I have laz 1.6.4 and fpc 3.0.2.
I noticed a similar thread in 2009:
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/2009-October/045577.html

From juha.manninen62 at gmail.com  Sat Sep  2 09:34:08 2017
From: juha.manninen62 at gmail.com (Juha Manninen)
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2017 10:34:08 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] FPC trunk + GTK2 widgetset + AnchorDocking
Message-ID: <CAPN1EhATPQq+DynH5SXeK1=xw3n-ehnxhHbWKDXnf+4LyT-1Ew@mail.gmail.com>

In my tests Lazarus compiled with FPC trunk for GTK2 widgetset breaks
AnchorDocking completely.
Please see my comment here:
 https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=32342#c102573
Can others reproduce or is it just my config issue?

Juha

From nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de  Sat Sep  2 11:39:35 2017
From: nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de (Mattias Gaertner)
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2017 11:39:35 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPC trunk + GTK2 widgetset + AnchorDocking
In-Reply-To: <CAPN1EhATPQq+DynH5SXeK1=xw3n-ehnxhHbWKDXnf+4LyT-1Ew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPN1EhATPQq+DynH5SXeK1=xw3n-ehnxhHbWKDXnf+4LyT-1Ew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170902113935.5afb2970@limapholos.matflo.wg>

On Sat, 2 Sep 2017 10:34:08 +0300
Juha Manninen via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

> In my tests Lazarus compiled with FPC trunk for GTK2 widgetset breaks
> AnchorDocking completely.
> Please see my comment here:
>  https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=32342#c102573
> Can others reproduce or is it just my config issue?

It works here.

Mattias

From andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  5 14:41:09 2017
From: andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com (Andrea Mauri)
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2017 14:41:09 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] custom thread reading file does not respond properly
Message-ID: <0bfe2ac7-e0f5-b926-1620-49471e04efb8@gmail.com>

Dear all,

I have an issue using threads on OSX.
Basically I have a thread reading a file and looking for a string match.
I have no problem on win and linux but on osx my thread updates the form 
but my application does not respond.
I opened a topic on the forum 
(https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,38146.0.html), I 
would like a more satisfactory answer. I am trying here.

If possible, I would like to understand if this behaviour is related to 
OSX or SSD drive. If related to OSX I can simply add IFDEF DARWIN 
calling sleep?
If it is related to SSD how can I manage it?

Andrea Mauri

From markMLl.lazarus at telemetry.co.uk  Tue Sep  5 18:44:45 2017
From: markMLl.lazarus at telemetry.co.uk (Mark Morgan Lloyd)
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2017 16:44:45 +0000
Subject: [Lazarus] custom thread reading file does not respond properly
In-Reply-To: <0bfe2ac7-e0f5-b926-1620-49471e04efb8@gmail.com>
References: <0bfe2ac7-e0f5-b926-1620-49471e04efb8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oomk9t$gm7$1@pye-srv-01.telemetry.co.uk>

On 05/09/17 13:00, Andrea Mauri via Lazarus wrote:
> Dear all,
> I have an issue using threads on OSX.Basically I have a thread reading a 
> file and looking for a string match.I have no problem on win and linux 
> but on osx my thread updates the form but my application does not 
> respond.I opened a topic on the forum 
> (https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,38146.0.html), I 
> would like a more satisfactory answer. I am trying here.
> If possible, I would like to understand if this behaviour is related to 
> OSX or SSD drive. If related to OSX I can simply add IFDEF DARWIN 
> calling sleep?If it is related to SSD how can I manage it?

James Richters on the fpc-pascal ML commented on SSD commit problems in 
March. However I don't see why something like that should spill over to 
the UI.

I notice that multiple people have already told you not to use a tight 
loop, and that applies to any OS.

-- 
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

From andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  5 21:43:27 2017
From: andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com (Andrea Mauri)
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2017 21:43:27 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] custom thread reading file does not respond properly
In-Reply-To: <oomk9t$gm7$1@pye-srv-01.telemetry.co.uk>
References: <0bfe2ac7-e0f5-b926-1620-49471e04efb8@gmail.com>
 <oomk9t$gm7$1@pye-srv-01.telemetry.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAHtPRHOqYASby9u_vDy3oOZRXx-8fb4eMfmDYj5Sq5YP4yYAww@mail.gmail.com>

> I notice that multiple people have already told you not to use a tight
> loop, and that applies to any OS.
>
>
>
What exactly means tight? Is it something that I could measure in some way?
The sample test I submitted to the forum is not my real code, that is a
little more complex, and it does anything I do. What should I add?
Since the same code works on win and linux (and as mattias wrote on the
forum also on Mac). But not on my Mac (I can see the label changing but I
cannot interact with my form), I supposed that it could be related to SSD
drive.
I didn't find a definitive answer.
Anyway what is your suggestion? What should I add?
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From pascaldragon at googlemail.com  Tue Sep  5 22:51:04 2017
From: pascaldragon at googlemail.com (Sven Barth)
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2017 22:51:04 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] custom thread reading file does not respond properly
In-Reply-To: <CAHtPRHOqYASby9u_vDy3oOZRXx-8fb4eMfmDYj5Sq5YP4yYAww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0bfe2ac7-e0f5-b926-1620-49471e04efb8@gmail.com>
 <oomk9t$gm7$1@pye-srv-01.telemetry.co.uk>
 <CAHtPRHOqYASby9u_vDy3oOZRXx-8fb4eMfmDYj5Sq5YP4yYAww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9c9de38a-bdd8-8c3e-f324-43258ce9eb25@googlemail.com>

On 05.09.2017 21:43, Andrea Mauri via Lazarus wrote:
> 
>     I notice that multiple people have already told you not to use a
>     tight loop, and that applies to any OS.
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly means tight? Is it something that I could measure in some way?
> The sample test I submitted to the forum is not my real code, that is a
> little more complex, and it does anything I do. What should I add?
> Since the same code works on win and linux (and as mattias wrote on the
> forum also on Mac). But not on my Mac (I can see the label changing but
> I cannot interact with my form), I supposed that it could be related to
> SSD drive.
> I didn't find a definitive answer. 
> Anyway what is your suggestion? What should I add?

It doesn't have to do with the SSD, this even happens on my old
PowerBook which is much less powerful and doesn't even have an SSD
(though I still plan to change that, mind you :P ).

It is however solved if you add a "Yield;" after the Synchronize call.
So my suspicion is that the scheduling of Mac OS X is somehow messing
things up. Either the scheduling is favoring the one thread while it
shouldn't (though even reducing the priority doesn't help) or the UI
framework of Mac OS X (and whatever else is involved in the main thread)
is so heavy weight that the timeslice of the mainthread is used up more
often than not thus leading to the read thread being scheduled much more
often.
By using Yield (or also Sleep(), but Yield is without any pause) the
thread is explicitly giving up its timeslice and that seems to be enough
here...

Sidenote: you might want to change your code a bit so that it looks like
this:

=== code begin ===

TMyThread = class
private
  fStatusMessage: String;
  procedure DoStatusEvent; // this will be passed to DoSynchronize
  procedure StatusEvent(const aStatus: String); // this will set
fStatusMessage and call Synchronize
  ...
end;

procedure TMyThread.StatusEvent(const aStatus: String);
begin
  fStatusMessage := aStatus;
  Synchronize(@DoStatusEvent);
  //Yield; // <- you can add this here
end;

=== code end ===

This is a bit cleaner as it keeps changes to the status handling in one
location. :)

Regards,
Sven

From andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  6 11:31:26 2017
From: andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com (Andrea Mauri)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 11:31:26 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] custom thread reading file does not respond properly
In-Reply-To: <9c9de38a-bdd8-8c3e-f324-43258ce9eb25@googlemail.com>
References: <0bfe2ac7-e0f5-b926-1620-49471e04efb8@gmail.com>
 <oomk9t$gm7$1@pye-srv-01.telemetry.co.uk>
 <CAHtPRHOqYASby9u_vDy3oOZRXx-8fb4eMfmDYj5Sq5YP4yYAww@mail.gmail.com>
 <9c9de38a-bdd8-8c3e-f324-43258ce9eb25@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <8d7c6e7a-1808-ea15-0720-95e9439a1c52@gmail.com>

Il 05/09/2017 22:51, Sven Barth via Lazarus ha scritto:
>
> It is however solved if you add a "Yield;" after the Synchronize call.
> So my suspicion is that the scheduling of Mac OS X is somehow messing
> things up. Either the scheduling is favoring the one thread while it
> shouldn't (though even reducing the priority doesn't help) or the UI
> framework of Mac OS X (and whatever else is involved in the main thread)
> is so heavy weight that the timeslice of the mainthread is used up more
> often than not thus leading to the read thread being scheduled much more
> often.
> By using Yield (or also Sleep(), but Yield is without any pause) the
> thread is explicitly giving up its timeslice and that seems to be enough
> here...
>

I changed the code following your hints and I added Yield. This is not 
enough, it seems that the application is a little bit more responding (I 
can click on Tedit and after seconds the text is highlighted) but not 
enough to be usable. Actually for me it works only if I add at least 
Sleep(1).
It is a pity that there is not a unique solution.

From el.es.cr at gmail.com  Wed Sep  6 16:26:32 2017
From: el.es.cr at gmail.com (el es)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 15:26:32 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] custom thread reading file does not respond properly
In-Reply-To: <8d7c6e7a-1808-ea15-0720-95e9439a1c52@gmail.com>
References: <0bfe2ac7-e0f5-b926-1620-49471e04efb8@gmail.com>
 <oomk9t$gm7$1@pye-srv-01.telemetry.co.uk>
 <CAHtPRHOqYASby9u_vDy3oOZRXx-8fb4eMfmDYj5Sq5YP4yYAww@mail.gmail.com>
 <9c9de38a-bdd8-8c3e-f324-43258ce9eb25@googlemail.com>
 <8d7c6e7a-1808-ea15-0720-95e9439a1c52@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oop0mc$eg4$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 06/09/17 10:31, Andrea Mauri via Lazarus wrote:
> Il 05/09/2017 22:51, Sven Barth via Lazarus ha scritto:
>> 
>> It is however solved if you add a "Yield;" after the Synchronize
>> call. So my suspicion is that the scheduling of Mac OS X is somehow
>> messing things up. Either the scheduling is favoring the one thread
>> while it shouldn't (though even reducing the priority doesn't help)
>> or the UI framework of Mac OS X (and whatever else is involved in
>> the main thread) is so heavy weight that the timeslice of the
>> mainthread is used up more often than not thus leading to the read
>> thread being scheduled much more often. By using Yield (or also
>> Sleep(), but Yield is without any pause) the thread is explicitly
>> giving up its timeslice and that seems to be enough here...
>> 
> 
> I changed the code following your hints and I added Yield. This is
> not enough, it seems that the application is a little bit more
> responding (I can click on Tedit and after seconds the text is
> highlighted) but not enough to be usable. Actually for me it works
> only if I add at least Sleep(1). It is a pity that there is not a
> unique solution.

Can you try ThreadSwitch after Sleep ?

while (not Terminated) do
    begin
      if eof(f) then
        reset(f);
      ReadLn(f, newStatus);
      if NewStatus <> fStatusText then
      begin
        fStatusText := newStatus;
        //Queue(@ShowStatus);
        Synchronize(@Showstatus);
        Sleep(5);
        ThreadSwitch; /// <<<< 
      end
      else  // also you need to cover what happens in ANY OTHER outcome of any test, e.g.
        ThreadSwitch;
      // because if NewStatus = fStatusText, you will IMMEDIATELY jump to the first instruction of the thread
      // so adding the ThreadSwitch at the very end of the loop, you give the rest of the application (the main thread) a chance to
      // actually do anything
    end;

Thread.Execute will execute ALL THE TIME if you don't yield/threadswitch in some code path, and WILL saturate your CPU.

-l,


From el.es.cr at gmail.com  Wed Sep  6 16:45:39 2017
From: el.es.cr at gmail.com (el es)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 15:45:39 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] custom thread reading file does not respond properly
In-Reply-To: <8d7c6e7a-1808-ea15-0720-95e9439a1c52@gmail.com>
References: <0bfe2ac7-e0f5-b926-1620-49471e04efb8@gmail.com>
 <oomk9t$gm7$1@pye-srv-01.telemetry.co.uk>
 <CAHtPRHOqYASby9u_vDy3oOZRXx-8fb4eMfmDYj5Sq5YP4yYAww@mail.gmail.com>
 <9c9de38a-bdd8-8c3e-f324-43258ce9eb25@googlemail.com>
 <8d7c6e7a-1808-ea15-0720-95e9439a1c52@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oop1q8$cqs$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 06/09/17 15:26, el es wrote:
> On 06/09/17 10:31, Andrea Mauri via Lazarus wrote:
>> Il 05/09/2017 22:51, Sven Barth via Lazarus ha scritto:
>>>
>>> It is however solved if you add a "Yield;" after the Synchronize
>>> call. So my suspicion is that the scheduling of Mac OS X is somehow
>>> messing things up. Either the scheduling is favoring the one thread
>>> while it shouldn't (though even reducing the priority doesn't help)
>>> or the UI framework of Mac OS X (and whatever else is involved in
>>> the main thread) is so heavy weight that the timeslice of the
>>> mainthread is used up more often than not thus leading to the read
>>> thread being scheduled much more often. By using Yield (or also
>>> Sleep(), but Yield is without any pause) the thread is explicitly
>>> giving up its timeslice and that seems to be enough here...
>>>
>>
>> I changed the code following your hints and I added Yield. This is
>> not enough, it seems that the application is a little bit more
>> responding (I can click on Tedit and after seconds the text is
>> highlighted) but not enough to be usable. Actually for me it works
>> only if I add at least Sleep(1). It is a pity that there is not a
>> unique solution.
> 
> Can you try ThreadSwitch after Sleep ?
> 
> while (not Terminated) do
>     begin
>       if eof(f) then
>         reset(f);
>       ReadLn(f, newStatus);
>       if NewStatus <> fStatusText then
>       begin
>         fStatusText := newStatus;
>         //Queue(@ShowStatus);
>         Synchronize(@Showstatus);
>         Sleep(5);
>         ThreadSwitch; /// <<<< 
>       end
>       else  // also you need to cover what happens in ANY OTHER outcome of any test, e.g.
>         ThreadSwitch;
>       // because if NewStatus = fStatusText, you will IMMEDIATELY jump to the first instruction of the thread
>       // so adding the ThreadSwitch at the very end of the loop, you give the rest of the application (the main thread) a chance to
>       // actually do anything
>     end;
> 
> Thread.Execute will execute ALL THE TIME if you don't yield/threadswitch in some code path, and WILL saturate your CPU.
> 
> -l,
> 

In addition to why this isn't a problem on Windows or Linux: they have supposedly better schedulers...

but if not all codepaths on a thread are covered to give some time to main thread, try to imagine what happens:

- could the un-yielded code path lead to over-zealous enqueuing of the ShowStatus routine?
- if yes, what would happen in such case?



From andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  6 16:59:32 2017
From: andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com (Andrea Mauri)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 16:59:32 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] custom thread reading file does not respond properly
In-Reply-To: <oop0mc$eg4$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <0bfe2ac7-e0f5-b926-1620-49471e04efb8@gmail.com>
 <oomk9t$gm7$1@pye-srv-01.telemetry.co.uk>
 <CAHtPRHOqYASby9u_vDy3oOZRXx-8fb4eMfmDYj5Sq5YP4yYAww@mail.gmail.com>
 <9c9de38a-bdd8-8c3e-f324-43258ce9eb25@googlemail.com>
 <8d7c6e7a-1808-ea15-0720-95e9439a1c52@gmail.com>
 <oop0mc$eg4$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAHtPRHN53ywzoPn6YWhGgk6aO2GYok9SKXtnVQPxx+2kJ-v9yA@mail.gmail.com>

2017-09-06 16:26 GMT+02:00 el es via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>
:

>
> Can you try ThreadSwitch after Sleep ?
>
> while (not Terminated) do
>     begin
>       if eof(f) then
>         reset(f);
>       ReadLn(f, newStatus);
>       if NewStatus <> fStatusText then
>       begin
>         fStatusText := newStatus;
>         //Queue(@ShowStatus);
>         Synchronize(@Showstatus);
>         Sleep(5);
>         ThreadSwitch; /// <<<<
>       end
>       else  // also you need to cover what happens in ANY OTHER outcome of
> any test, e.g.
>         ThreadSwitch;
>       // because if NewStatus = fStatusText, you will IMMEDIATELY jump to
> the first instruction of the thread
>       // so adding the ThreadSwitch at the very end of the loop, you give
> the rest of the application (the main thread) a chance to
>       // actually do anything
>     end;
>
> Thread.Execute will execute ALL THE TIME if you don't yield/threadswitch
> in some code path, and WILL saturate your CPU.
>
>
Actually using sleep(1) I can interact with my application. ThreadSwitch
does not introduce any change. If I use sleep(1) it works, if I don't use
it but I use Yield or ThreadSwitch I cannot interact with my application.
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From pascaldragon at googlemail.com  Wed Sep  6 17:19:28 2017
From: pascaldragon at googlemail.com (Sven Barth)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 17:19:28 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] custom thread reading file does not respond properly
In-Reply-To: <oop1q8$cqs$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <0bfe2ac7-e0f5-b926-1620-49471e04efb8@gmail.com>
 <oomk9t$gm7$1@pye-srv-01.telemetry.co.uk>
 <CAHtPRHOqYASby9u_vDy3oOZRXx-8fb4eMfmDYj5Sq5YP4yYAww@mail.gmail.com>
 <9c9de38a-bdd8-8c3e-f324-43258ce9eb25@googlemail.com>
 <8d7c6e7a-1808-ea15-0720-95e9439a1c52@gmail.com>
 <oop1q8$cqs$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAFMUeB8oy7iUU0y=5kdYEGW5QU5-2Y4evKrxFOEFPR0tM4faNw@mail.gmail.com>

Am 06.09.2017 16:48 schrieb "el es via Lazarus" <
lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>:
>
> On 06/09/17 15:26, el es wrote:
> > On 06/09/17 10:31, Andrea Mauri via Lazarus wrote:
> >> Il 05/09/2017 22:51, Sven Barth via Lazarus ha scritto:
> >>>
> >>> It is however solved if you add a "Yield;" after the Synchronize
> >>> call. So my suspicion is that the scheduling of Mac OS X is somehow
> >>> messing things up. Either the scheduling is favoring the one thread
> >>> while it shouldn't (though even reducing the priority doesn't help)
> >>> or the UI framework of Mac OS X (and whatever else is involved in
> >>> the main thread) is so heavy weight that the timeslice of the
> >>> mainthread is used up more often than not thus leading to the read
> >>> thread being scheduled much more often. By using Yield (or also
> >>> Sleep(), but Yield is without any pause) the thread is explicitly
> >>> giving up its timeslice and that seems to be enough here...
> >>>
> >>
> >> I changed the code following your hints and I added Yield. This is
> >> not enough, it seems that the application is a little bit more
> >> responding (I can click on Tedit and after seconds the text is
> >> highlighted) but not enough to be usable. Actually for me it works
> >> only if I add at least Sleep(1). It is a pity that there is not a
> >> unique solution.
> >
> > Can you try ThreadSwitch after Sleep ?
> >
> > while (not Terminated) do
> >     begin
> >       if eof(f) then
> >         reset(f);
> >       ReadLn(f, newStatus);
> >       if NewStatus <> fStatusText then
> >       begin
> >         fStatusText := newStatus;
> >         //Queue(@ShowStatus);
> >         Synchronize(@Showstatus);
> >         Sleep(5);
> >         ThreadSwitch; /// <<<<
> >       end
> >       else  // also you need to cover what happens in ANY OTHER outcome
of any test, e.g.
> >         ThreadSwitch;
> >       // because if NewStatus = fStatusText, you will IMMEDIATELY jump
to the first instruction of the thread
> >       // so adding the ThreadSwitch at the very end of the loop, you
give the rest of the application (the main thread) a chance to
> >       // actually do anything
> >     end;
> >
> > Thread.Execute will execute ALL THE TIME if you don't
yield/threadswitch in some code path, and WILL saturate your CPU.
> >
> > -l,
> >
>
> In addition to why this isn't a problem on Windows or Linux: they have
supposedly better schedulers...
>
> but if not all codepaths on a thread are covered to give some time to
main thread, try to imagine what happens:
>
> - could the un-yielded code path lead to over-zealous enqueuing of the
ShowStatus routine?
> - if yes, what would happen in such case?

Both Synchronize and Sleep already causes a thread switch (the former cause
it will wait for the main thread to finish processing). Also I already
suggested TThread.Yield which is the same as ThreadSwitch.
And as he wrote the Sleep(1) solves the problem for him.
It's a pity though that this seems to be necessary on Mac OS X :/

Regards,
Sven
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From el.es.cr at gmail.com  Wed Sep  6 17:25:35 2017
From: el.es.cr at gmail.com (el es)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 16:25:35 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] custom thread reading file does not respond properly
In-Reply-To: <CAFMUeB8oy7iUU0y=5kdYEGW5QU5-2Y4evKrxFOEFPR0tM4faNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0bfe2ac7-e0f5-b926-1620-49471e04efb8@gmail.com>
 <oomk9t$gm7$1@pye-srv-01.telemetry.co.uk>
 <CAHtPRHOqYASby9u_vDy3oOZRXx-8fb4eMfmDYj5Sq5YP4yYAww@mail.gmail.com>
 <9c9de38a-bdd8-8c3e-f324-43258ce9eb25@googlemail.com>
 <8d7c6e7a-1808-ea15-0720-95e9439a1c52@gmail.com>
 <oop1q8$cqs$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAFMUeB8oy7iUU0y=5kdYEGW5QU5-2Y4evKrxFOEFPR0tM4faNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oop418$j6g$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 06/09/17 16:19, Sven Barth via Lazarus wrote:
> Am 06.09.2017 16:48 schrieb "el es via Lazarus" <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org <mailto:lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>>:

>> - could the un-yielded code path lead to over-zealous enqueuing of the ShowStatus routine?
>> - if yes, what would happen in such case?
> 
> Both Synchronize and Sleep already causes a thread switch (the former cause it will wait for the main thread to finish processing). Also I already suggested TThread.Yield which is the same as ThreadSwitch.
> And as he wrote the Sleep(1) solves the problem for him.
> It's a pity though that this seems to be necessary on Mac OS X :/
> 
> Regards,
> Sven

It is neccessary in Windows for me too (but i have the opposite problem : the thread-processing can be
a lot shorter - hardware communications - than the time slice of the main thread, giving several Queue()
 or Synchronize() calls as a result;)
Because of that, I have to use a tthreadlist as a buffer between the thread and the main thread.

The time where I was hunting an elusive problem that did not happen under debugger, is never lost ;)

-l.



From nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de  Wed Sep  6 17:36:13 2017
From: nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de (Mattias Gaertner)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 17:36:13 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] custom thread reading file does not respond properly
In-Reply-To: <CAFMUeB8oy7iUU0y=5kdYEGW5QU5-2Y4evKrxFOEFPR0tM4faNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0bfe2ac7-e0f5-b926-1620-49471e04efb8@gmail.com>
 <oomk9t$gm7$1@pye-srv-01.telemetry.co.uk>
 <CAHtPRHOqYASby9u_vDy3oOZRXx-8fb4eMfmDYj5Sq5YP4yYAww@mail.gmail.com>
 <9c9de38a-bdd8-8c3e-f324-43258ce9eb25@googlemail.com>
 <8d7c6e7a-1808-ea15-0720-95e9439a1c52@gmail.com>
 <oop1q8$cqs$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAFMUeB8oy7iUU0y=5kdYEGW5QU5-2Y4evKrxFOEFPR0tM4faNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170906173613.55d50e7f@limapholos.matflo.wg>

On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 17:19:28 +0200
Sven Barth via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

>[...]
> Both Synchronize and Sleep already causes a thread switch (the former cause
> it will wait for the main thread to finish processing). Also I already
> suggested TThread.Yield which is the same as ThreadSwitch.
> And as he wrote the Sleep(1) solves the problem for him.
> It's a pity though that this seems to be necessary on Mac OS X :/

Note that his example works on my Mac with or without
sleep. Maybe if Andrea posts his full example we may find out more.

Mattias

From andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  6 18:15:24 2017
From: andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com (Andrea Mauri)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 18:15:24 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] custom thread reading file does not respond properly
In-Reply-To: <20170906173613.55d50e7f@limapholos.matflo.wg>
References: <0bfe2ac7-e0f5-b926-1620-49471e04efb8@gmail.com>
 <oomk9t$gm7$1@pye-srv-01.telemetry.co.uk>
 <CAHtPRHOqYASby9u_vDy3oOZRXx-8fb4eMfmDYj5Sq5YP4yYAww@mail.gmail.com>
 <9c9de38a-bdd8-8c3e-f324-43258ce9eb25@googlemail.com>
 <8d7c6e7a-1808-ea15-0720-95e9439a1c52@gmail.com>
 <oop1q8$cqs$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAFMUeB8oy7iUU0y=5kdYEGW5QU5-2Y4evKrxFOEFPR0tM4faNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170906173613.55d50e7f@limapholos.matflo.wg>
Message-ID: <2f06606c-faf5-9f70-66f5-4d3e04e68675@gmail.com>

> Note that his example works on my Mac with or without
> sleep. Maybe if Andrea posts his full example we may find out more.
>
> Mattias
>

Unfortunately I cannot post the real case, it is included in a bigger 
unit involving other stuffs.
Anyway the example I posted is quite the same.

In order to better clarify my issue:
- I have to manage text files including some logical blocks (items), 
these files can be huge (gigabytes) and they can store millions of items 
(some file types define an item using a single line). My application 
deals with these files enabling the user to visualize the items in a 
grid and rapidly move along the file.
I encounter it in two different threads:
1. a thread that I launch when the user load one of these files. This 
thread simply reads the file, counts the items and stores the position 
of the items (streambuffer positions).
2. a thread reading a file and looking for a substring.

1. source

procedure TCountItemsThread.Execute;
var
   streamreader: TStreamReader;
   streampos, streamsize: Int64;
   bufferpos, nitems: Integer;
begin
   _itemfile:= TItemsFile.Create(_filename, _fileformat);
   try
     streamreader:= _itemfile._streamreader;
     streamreader.Reset;
     streamsize:= streamreader.BaseStream.Size;
     _itempos.Clear;
     _itembufpos.Clear;
     nitems:= 0;
     while not Terminated and not streamreader.Eof do
     begin
       // stores items source position in file as Position and 
BufferPosition
       streampos:= streamreader.Position;
       if streamreader.BufferRead < (BUFFER_SIZE - 1) then
         streampos:= streampos - (streamreader.BufferRead)
       else
         streampos:= streampos - (BUFFER_SIZE - 1);
       bufferpos:= streamreader.BufferPosition;
       if (bufferpos = 0) and (streampos > 0 ) then
       begin
         streampos:= streampos - (BUFFER_SIZE - 1);
         bufferpos:= BUFFER_SIZE - 1;
       end;
       if _itemsfile.nextItem then begin
         _itempos.Add(streampos);
         _itembufpos.Add(bufferpos);
         _progress:= round((streampos / streamsize) * 100);
         Inc(nitems);
         if (_itempos.Count mod 1000) = 0 then begin
           Synchronize(@CountingItems);
         end;
       end;
     end;
     Synchronize(@EndCountItems);
   finally
     _itemfile.Free;
   end;
end;


nextItem simply parse the file and move the stream to the next item 
position. If the file has single line items I cannot interact with my 
app even on win.

2. source

procedure TFilterNameThread.Execute;
var
   substr, str1: string;
   i, step, occurrences: Integer;
   clonedfile: TItemFile;
begin
   // if substr is empty do not perform search
   FFindItems.Size:= FItemFile.CountItems;
   if Trim(FindString) = '' then begin
     for i:= 0 to FItemFile.CountItems - 1 do begin
       FFindItems[i]:= True;
     end;
     _itemidx:= FItemFile.CountItems;
     Synchronize(@ShowProgress);
     Exit;
   end;
   // store original FItemFile.Selected[] and sets FItemFile.Selected[] 
to False
   _itemidx:= 0;
   FFindItems.Clearall;
   Synchronize(@ShowProgress);
   clonedfile:= FItemFile.CloneFile;
   try
     step:= clonedfile.CountItems div 100;
     if step = 0 then
       step:= 1;

     substr:= FindString;
     if not CaseSensitive then
       substr:= upcase(substr);
     occurrences:= 0;
     while (not Terminated) and (_itemidx < clonedfile.CountItems) do begin
       if CheckAll or Selected[_itemidx] then
       begin
         str1:= clonedfile.ItemName[_itemidx];
         if not CaseSensitive then
           str1:= upcase(str1);
         if Pos(substr, str1) > 0 then begin
           FFindItems[_itemidx]:= True;
           Synchronize(@ShowProgress);
           Inc(occurrences);
         end;
       end;
       if (_itemidx mod step) = (step - 1) then begin
         Sleep(5);
         Synchronize(@ShowProgress);
       end;
       Inc(_itemidx);
     end;
     Synchronize(@ShowProgress);
   finally
     clonedfile.Free;
   end;
end;

From andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  6 19:14:15 2017
From: andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com (Andrea Mauri)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 19:14:15 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] savedialog carbon osx
Message-ID: <CAHtPRHM9FPocjnkVYhQVKcDVj7b4ZhsJEnj8S5+NYcNJmNOdyQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I have an issue with tsavedialog on OS X (laz 1.6.4, fps 3.0.2).
If I execute the dialog and select a file in Documents folder then I
execute again the dialog the filename is highlighted in the savedialog, I
just press Save and the file name I messed up, the filename include the
previous filename plus the new filename without path.
In order to reproduce that just add a button a savedialog and a label to a
form.

procedure TForm1.Button1Click(Sender: TObject);
begin
  if SaveDialog1.Execute then
    Label1.Caption:= SaveDialog1.FileName;
end;

A known bug?
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From pascaldragon at googlemail.com  Wed Sep  6 19:34:46 2017
From: pascaldragon at googlemail.com (Sven Barth)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 19:34:46 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] custom thread reading file does not respond properly
In-Reply-To: <20170906173613.55d50e7f@limapholos.matflo.wg>
References: <0bfe2ac7-e0f5-b926-1620-49471e04efb8@gmail.com>
 <oomk9t$gm7$1@pye-srv-01.telemetry.co.uk>
 <CAHtPRHOqYASby9u_vDy3oOZRXx-8fb4eMfmDYj5Sq5YP4yYAww@mail.gmail.com>
 <9c9de38a-bdd8-8c3e-f324-43258ce9eb25@googlemail.com>
 <8d7c6e7a-1808-ea15-0720-95e9439a1c52@gmail.com>
 <oop1q8$cqs$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAFMUeB8oy7iUU0y=5kdYEGW5QU5-2Y4evKrxFOEFPR0tM4faNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170906173613.55d50e7f@limapholos.matflo.wg>
Message-ID: <CAFMUeB_SRke6HOEF4iy38cnFKLJ3U4McWDr=Tys==vX9C1ihiQ@mail.gmail.com>

Am 06.09.2017 17:36 schrieb "Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus" <
lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>:
>
> On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 17:19:28 +0200
> Sven Barth via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>
> >[...]
> > Both Synchronize and Sleep already causes a thread switch (the former
cause
> > it will wait for the main thread to finish processing). Also I already
> > suggested TThread.Yield which is the same as ThreadSwitch.
> > And as he wrote the Sleep(1) solves the problem for him.
> > It's a pity though that this seems to be necessary on Mac OS X :/
>
> Note that his example works on my Mac with or without
> sleep. Maybe if Andrea posts his full example we may find out more.

Maybe your file is not suitable? I used a /var/log/messages.log file from
one of my Linux computers and with that I can reproduce it with the given
code.

Regards,
Sven
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From andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  6 19:45:19 2017
From: andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com (Andrea Mauri)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 19:45:19 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] custom thread reading file does not respond properly
In-Reply-To: <CAFMUeB_SRke6HOEF4iy38cnFKLJ3U4McWDr=Tys==vX9C1ihiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0bfe2ac7-e0f5-b926-1620-49471e04efb8@gmail.com>
 <oomk9t$gm7$1@pye-srv-01.telemetry.co.uk>
 <CAHtPRHOqYASby9u_vDy3oOZRXx-8fb4eMfmDYj5Sq5YP4yYAww@mail.gmail.com>
 <9c9de38a-bdd8-8c3e-f324-43258ce9eb25@googlemail.com>
 <8d7c6e7a-1808-ea15-0720-95e9439a1c52@gmail.com>
 <oop1q8$cqs$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAFMUeB8oy7iUU0y=5kdYEGW5QU5-2Y4evKrxFOEFPR0tM4faNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170906173613.55d50e7f@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <CAFMUeB_SRke6HOEF4iy38cnFKLJ3U4McWDr=Tys==vX9C1ihiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHtPRHOVgh_yB3pLwnpRZRh5pCoFgk870B3EnOzqE-1LwggafQ@mail.gmail.com>

2017-09-06 19:34 GMT+02:00 Sven Barth via Lazarus <
lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>:

> Maybe your file is not suitable? I used a /var/log/messages.log file from
> one of my Linux computers and with that I can reproduce it with the given
> code.
>
> Regards,
> Sven
>
>
> They are plain text file. Attached one of them, I tested the application I
reported on the forum with this one.
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From aaa5500 at ya.ru  Thu Sep  7 08:42:28 2017
From: aaa5500 at ya.ru (Alexey)
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 09:42:28 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] crDrag cursor is now 2x bigger
Message-ID: <a9a9364c-16f4-8ca1-d03a-22267a0b3ca3@ya.ru>

with crNoDrop cursor. On Linux gtk2 I see cursor is 2x-3x bigger than I 
seen it before, 2-3 months ago.

-- 
Regards,
Alexey


From zeljko at holobit.net  Thu Sep  7 09:02:33 2017
From: zeljko at holobit.net (Zeljko)
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2017 09:02:33 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] crDrag cursor is now 2x bigger
In-Reply-To: <a9a9364c-16f4-8ca1-d03a-22267a0b3ca3@ya.ru>
References: <a9a9364c-16f4-8ca1-d03a-22267a0b3ca3@ya.ru>
Message-ID: <59B0EF09.7080204@holobit.net>



On 09/07/2017 08:42 AM, Alexey via Lazarus wrote:
> with crNoDrop cursor. On Linux gtk2 I see cursor is 2x-3x bigger than I
> seen it before, 2-3 months ago.
>

Maybe not related but this is my yesterday post to lazdevel list:

cursorimage.inc
TCursorImage.LoadFromResourceHandle()
Line 95

IconEntry.bWidth := DirEntry^.wWidth;
IconEntry.bHeight := DirEntry^.wHeight;

IconEntry members are byte, but DirEntry members are word, so range 
error occurs.

Note that range error does not occur with fpc-3.0.2 , but it happens 
with 3.0.4rc1.

So, maybe cast can fix your problem:
IconEntry.bWidth := Byte(DirEntry^.wWidth);
IconEntry.bHeight := Byte(DirEntry^.wHeight);

zeljko

From lazarus at kluug.net  Thu Sep  7 09:09:14 2017
From: lazarus at kluug.net (Ondrej Pokorny)
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 09:09:14 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] crDrag cursor is now 2x bigger
In-Reply-To: <a9a9364c-16f4-8ca1-d03a-22267a0b3ca3@ya.ru>
References: <a9a9364c-16f4-8ca1-d03a-22267a0b3ca3@ya.ru>
Message-ID: <9a5e4431-2b74-d4b5-bee2-2c1ff607fb04@kluug.net>

Michl added high-resolution cursors recently. Obviously Gtk2 picks up 
the wrong size. Win32 works fine.

Ondrej

From mlnglsts at bgss.hu  Thu Sep  7 15:03:30 2017
From: mlnglsts at bgss.hu (Gabor Boros)
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 15:03:30 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Strange anchoring with a ScrollBox, Panel,
	Label combination
Message-ID: <9383f3e9-6ed8-9e1f-ae65-33365941fb73@bgss.hu>

Hi All,

See the attached example project. If a Label wider than the owner 
Panel's width its (the owner Panel) resized to Label's width and the 
horizontal scrollbar appears in the ScrollBox. From my POV this is a 
bug. I am wrong?

Gabor
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From m-w-vogel at gmx.de  Thu Sep  7 15:57:29 2017
From: m-w-vogel at gmx.de (Michael W. Vogel)
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 15:57:29 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] crDrag cursor is now 2x bigger
In-Reply-To: <9a5e4431-2b74-d4b5-bee2-2c1ff607fb04@kluug.net>
References: <a9a9364c-16f4-8ca1-d03a-22267a0b3ca3@ya.ru>
 <9a5e4431-2b74-d4b5-bee2-2c1ff607fb04@kluug.net>
Message-ID: <56bf9dc0-016d-5ded-9b5a-51064ad0aeb0@gmx.de>

Am 07.09.2017 um 09:09 schrieb Ondrej Pokorny via Lazarus:
> Michl added high-resolution cursors recently. Obviously Gtk2 picks up 
> the wrong size. Win32 works fine.

This is a inconsistency between Linux and Windows. While on Windows the 
cursors are scaled after the DPI setting is changed, on Linux the 
cursors stays small. The cursors taken from the system are further 
small. The cursors taken from resourse are wrongly scaled.

Will see.

Michl

From m-w-vogel at gmx.de  Thu Sep  7 16:28:24 2017
From: m-w-vogel at gmx.de (Michael W. Vogel)
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 16:28:24 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] crDrag cursor is now 2x bigger
In-Reply-To: <56bf9dc0-016d-5ded-9b5a-51064ad0aeb0@gmx.de>
References: <a9a9364c-16f4-8ca1-d03a-22267a0b3ca3@ya.ru>
 <9a5e4431-2b74-d4b5-bee2-2c1ff607fb04@kluug.net>
 <56bf9dc0-016d-5ded-9b5a-51064ad0aeb0@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <210bcd41-9105-9062-f94b-8d00acf84097@gmx.de>


Am 07.09.2017 um 15:57 schrieb Michael W. Vogel via Lazarus:
> This is a inconsistency between Linux and Windows. While on Windows 
> the cursors are scaled after the DPI setting is changed, on Linux the 
> cursors stays small. The cursors taken from the system are further 
> small. The cursors taken from resourse are wrongly scaled.

Damn, I'm wrong. This was the behaviour after switching from 120 to 
196DPI. Seems so, not all settings were correctly switched.

After a restart of that OS, revision 55794 works correct here (all 
cursors scaled, just crNo is to little, see test app on bugtracker): 
64bit Linux Mint KDE 17.3 Lazarus 1.9.0 r55794 FPC 3.0.2 x86_64-linux-gtk2

Well, I think lets discuss it here: 
https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=32385

Michl

From aaa5500 at ya.ru  Fri Sep  8 08:49:47 2017
From: aaa5500 at ya.ru (Alexey)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 09:49:47 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] TreeView.SortType has no effect on adding
Message-ID: <49f8bc65-0269-d0fb-bd48-d82afaadcfb9@ya.ru>

not sure it is a bug. set Tree.SortType to stText. tree is sorted OK. 
now clear it, add many new items ==> items not sorted. so AlphaSort not 
called after adding items.

-- 
Regards,
Alexey


From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Fri Sep  8 10:48:38 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 09:48:38 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] Why is there no announcement of Lazarus event
Message-ID: <2c97cefb-06b3-0c1c-465b-da7d08aa92f1@geldenhuys.co.uk>


Just wondering? Or is it still coming?


Regards,
   Graeme


From marc at dommelstein.nl  Fri Sep  8 14:03:29 2017
From: marc at dommelstein.nl (Marc Weustink)
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 14:03:29 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Why is there no announcement of Lazarus event
In-Reply-To: <2c97cefb-06b3-0c1c-465b-da7d08aa92f1@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <2c97cefb-06b3-0c1c-465b-da7d08aa92f1@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <972CF592-B105-436C-A90E-10F1A42122A6@dommelstein.nl>

Which event are you referring to?

Marc

On September 8, 2017 10:48:38 AM GMT+02:00, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>
>Just wondering? Or is it still coming?
>
>
>Regards,
>   Graeme
>
>-- 
>_______________________________________________
>Lazarus mailing list
>Lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org
>https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus

From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Fri Sep  8 14:21:02 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 13:21:02 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] Why is there no announcement of Lazarus event
In-Reply-To: <972CF592-B105-436C-A90E-10F1A42122A6@dommelstein.nl>
References: <2c97cefb-06b3-0c1c-465b-da7d08aa92f1@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <972CF592-B105-436C-A90E-10F1A42122A6@dommelstein.nl>
Message-ID: <a6c6b940-8cb3-8f47-b674-6e24954c8bdf@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-08 13:03, Marc Weustink via Lazarus wrote:
> Which event are you referring to?


http://www.blaisepascal.eu/agenda/lazarus_conference.php

Dated for 14 October 2017.

Regards,
   Graeme



From marc at dommelstein.nl  Fri Sep  8 18:16:35 2017
From: marc at dommelstein.nl (Marc Weustink)
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 18:16:35 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Why is there no announcement of Lazarus event
In-Reply-To: <a6c6b940-8cb3-8f47-b674-6e24954c8bdf@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <2c97cefb-06b3-0c1c-465b-da7d08aa92f1@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <972CF592-B105-436C-A90E-10F1A42122A6@dommelstein.nl>
 <a6c6b940-8cb3-8f47-b674-6e24954c8bdf@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4907D613-DE20-42D9-A04C-C665F7FD8DBC@dommelstein.nl>

Some members of the Lazarus team have contacts with blaisepascal, but we are not connected. Some of the Lazarus members might have a talk but the agenda is mostly unknown yet. The link you gave is setup 2 days ago, the same time the editor contacted me for some ideas.

Imo to early for an announcement

Marc

On September 8, 2017 2:21:02 PM GMT+02:00, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>On 2017-09-08 13:03, Marc Weustink via Lazarus wrote:
>> Which event are you referring to?
>
>
>http://www.blaisepascal.eu/agenda/lazarus_conference.php
>
>Dated for 14 October 2017.
>
>Regards,
>   Graeme
>
>
>-- 
>_______________________________________________
>Lazarus mailing list
>Lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org
>https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus

From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Fri Sep  8 18:40:48 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 17:40:48 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] Why is there no announcement of Lazarus event
In-Reply-To: <4907D613-DE20-42D9-A04C-C665F7FD8DBC@dommelstein.nl>
References: <2c97cefb-06b3-0c1c-465b-da7d08aa92f1@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <972CF592-B105-436C-A90E-10F1A42122A6@dommelstein.nl>
 <a6c6b940-8cb3-8f47-b674-6e24954c8bdf@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <4907D613-DE20-42D9-A04C-C665F7FD8DBC@dommelstein.nl>
Message-ID: <eb47585d-8825-693a-9aa5-74a30bc5e6b3@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-08 17:16, Marc Weustink via Lazarus wrote:
> The link you gave is setup 2 days ago, the same time the editor contacted me for some ideas.
> 
> Imo to early for an announcement

Fair enough.  I was contacted yesterday - to be one of the presenters, 
but unfortunately it was too short notice for me (even though I would 
have loved to go). :-(

I didn't realise the idea of having a Conference came about so late. 
They [Blaise Pascal] really should plan ahead better. The same issue 
"too short notice" might now apply to somebody that wants to attend the 
conference too. :-/

I do appreciate Blaise Pascal for wanting to promote FPC and Lazarus 
though. It's high time somebody does!


Regards,
   Graeme

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

From md at delfire.net  Fri Sep  8 19:06:45 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 14:06:45 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Why is there no announcement of Lazarus event
In-Reply-To: <eb47585d-8825-693a-9aa5-74a30bc5e6b3@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <2c97cefb-06b3-0c1c-465b-da7d08aa92f1@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <972CF592-B105-436C-A90E-10F1A42122A6@dommelstein.nl>
 <a6c6b940-8cb3-8f47-b674-6e24954c8bdf@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <4907D613-DE20-42D9-A04C-C665F7FD8DBC@dommelstein.nl>
 <eb47585d-8825-693a-9aa5-74a30bc5e6b3@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeZh19n4TCSxZ7f1XXyiHnMGjezhJfwQAxT9e7tPEPsswQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>
> I didn't realise the idea of having a Conference came about so late. They
> [Blaise Pascal] really should plan ahead better. The same issue "too short
> notice" might now apply to somebody that wants to attend the conference too.
> :-/

I agree. I know that could be difficult, but plan ahead (months?)
would be better.
I'm living on Brazil but almost every year I travel to abroad. If I
know about these conferences at the future, I would participated.

> I do appreciate Blaise Pascal for wanting to promote FPC and Lazarus though.
> It's high time somebody does!

+1

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com  Sat Sep  9 10:30:30 2017
From: andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com (Andrea Mauri)
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2017 10:30:30 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] custom thread reading file does not respond properly
In-Reply-To: <CAHtPRHOVgh_yB3pLwnpRZRh5pCoFgk870B3EnOzqE-1LwggafQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0bfe2ac7-e0f5-b926-1620-49471e04efb8@gmail.com>
 <oomk9t$gm7$1@pye-srv-01.telemetry.co.uk>
 <CAHtPRHOqYASby9u_vDy3oOZRXx-8fb4eMfmDYj5Sq5YP4yYAww@mail.gmail.com>
 <9c9de38a-bdd8-8c3e-f324-43258ce9eb25@googlemail.com>
 <8d7c6e7a-1808-ea15-0720-95e9439a1c52@gmail.com>
 <oop1q8$cqs$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CAFMUeB8oy7iUU0y=5kdYEGW5QU5-2Y4evKrxFOEFPR0tM4faNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170906173613.55d50e7f@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <CAFMUeB_SRke6HOEF4iy38cnFKLJ3U4McWDr=Tys==vX9C1ihiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHtPRHOVgh_yB3pLwnpRZRh5pCoFgk870B3EnOzqE-1LwggafQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <254b792c-703f-63d1-e8f0-903c25e37347@gmail.com>

Il 06/09/2017 19:45, Andrea Mauri ha scritto:
>
> 2017-09-06 19:34 GMT+02:00 Sven Barth via Lazarus
> <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org <mailto:lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>>:
>
>     Maybe your file is not suitable? I used a /var/log/messages.log file
>     from one of my Linux computers and with that I can reproduce it with
>     the given code.
>
>     Regards,
>     Sven
>
>
> They are plain text file. Attached one of them, I tested the application
> I reported on the forum with this one.
>


As far as I understood. This behaviour is quite unpredictable, the 
thread seems to work properly or not with different solutions. Sometimes 
it works on osx sometimes not.
I have to admit that I would prefer that it was a bug or an error in my 
code.
Do you have any suggestion to improve my code (even with ifdef) in order 
to be able to deploy an application that works on lin/win/osx?

From nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de  Sat Sep  9 12:16:16 2017
From: nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de (Mattias Gaertner)
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2017 12:16:16 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] TreeView.SortType has no effect on adding
In-Reply-To: <49f8bc65-0269-d0fb-bd48-d82afaadcfb9@ya.ru>
References: <49f8bc65-0269-d0fb-bd48-d82afaadcfb9@ya.ru>
Message-ID: <20170909121616.7a787928@limapholos.matflo.wg>

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 09:49:47 +0300
Alexey via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

> not sure it is a bug. set Tree.SortType to stText. tree is sorted OK. 
> now clear it, add many new items ==> items not sorted. so AlphaSort not 
> called after adding items.

This is Delphi compatible.

I will add it to the documentation.

Mattias

From j.w.dietrich at medizinische-kybernetik.de  Sat Sep  9 14:10:35 2017
From: j.w.dietrich at medizinische-kybernetik.de (Johannes W. Dietrich)
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:10:35 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Why is there no announcement of Lazarus event (Graeme
	Geldenhuys)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1504951202.5674.lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org>
References: <mailman.1.1504951202.5674.lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org>
Message-ID: <560B1A0C-428A-4657-9650-E8CE48DA8C36@medizinische-kybernetik.de>

See http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Conferences_and_Events for an (almost) up-to-date list of events.


-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
-- PD Dr. med. Johannes W. Dietrich
-- Laboratory XU44, Endocrine Research
-- Medical Hospital I, Bergmannsheil University Hospitals
-- Ruhr University of Bochum
-- Buerkle-de-la-Camp-Platz 1, D-44789 Bochum, NRW, Germany
-- Phone: +49:234:302-6400, Fax: +49:234:302-6403
-- eMail: "johannes.dietrich at ruhr-uni-bochum.de"
-- http://www.thyreologie.com.de
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --






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From aaa5500 at ya.ru  Mon Sep 11 20:29:12 2017
From: aaa5500 at ya.ru (Alexey)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 21:29:12 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] not optimal code (need Move) in RegExpr unit
Message-ID: <dbe5cfc2-4a36-d1bb-bfdf-9f52f1482303@ya.ru>

function StrPCopy (Dest: PRegExprChar; const Source: RegExprString): 
PRegExprChar;
  var
   i, Len : PtrInt;
  begin
   Len := length (Source); //###0.932
   for i := 1 to Len do
    Dest [i - 1] := Source [i];
   Dest [Len] := #0;
   Result := Dest;
  end; { of function StrPCopy
--------------------------------------------------------------}

function StrLCopy (Dest, Source: PRegExprChar; MaxLen: PtrUInt): 
PRegExprChar;
  var i: PtrInt;
  begin
   for i := 0 to MaxLen - 1 do
    Dest [i] := Source [i];
   Result := Dest;
  end; { of function StrLCopy
--------------------------------------------------------------}

-- 
Regards,
Alexey


From aaa5500 at ya.ru  Mon Sep 11 22:19:20 2017
From: aaa5500 at ya.ru (Alexey)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 23:19:20 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Idea of TFormTitle
Message-ID: <b816449e-3d7a-2ce4-60e5-cc1515ae4779@ya.ru>

Maybe ok idea? make class TFormTitle. it is some small (by Y) form which 
is embedded into Form (form which has FormTitle property set). When prop 
FormTitle set, OS border hides and obj of FormTitle inserted into TOP of 
form (it looks like OS window caption).

When this FormTitle is used, form has LCL border. default FormTitle can 
be simple (x, min, max +icon +title). OS border is hidden. It is ok idea?

-- 
Regards,
Alexey


From badsectoracula at gmail.com  Mon Sep 11 23:08:53 2017
From: badsectoracula at gmail.com (Kostas Michalopoulos)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 00:08:53 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Idea of TFormTitle
In-Reply-To: <b816449e-3d7a-2ce4-60e5-cc1515ae4779@ya.ru>
References: <b816449e-3d7a-2ce4-60e5-cc1515ae4779@ya.ru>
Message-ID: <CAH=meXVX6D3DwRZd=FLXxBowzJDKdtc0WVk9jRkrqAkzpdxELw@mail.gmail.com>

Why would you want that?

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 11:19 PM, Alexey via Lazarus <
lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

> Maybe ok idea? make class TFormTitle. it is some small (by Y) form which
> is embedded into Form (form which has FormTitle property set). When prop
> FormTitle set, OS border hides and obj of FormTitle inserted into TOP of
> form (it looks like OS window caption).
>
> When this FormTitle is used, form has LCL border. default FormTitle can be
> simple (x, min, max +icon +title). OS border is hidden. It is ok idea?
>
> --
> Regards,
> Alexey
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Lazarus mailing list
> Lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org
> https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
>
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From aaa5500 at ya.ru  Mon Sep 11 23:12:54 2017
From: aaa5500 at ya.ru (Alexey)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 00:12:54 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Idea of TFormTitle
In-Reply-To: <CAH=meXVX6D3DwRZd=FLXxBowzJDKdtc0WVk9jRkrqAkzpdxELw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b816449e-3d7a-2ce4-60e5-cc1515ae4779@ya.ru>
 <CAH=meXVX6D3DwRZd=FLXxBowzJDKdtc0WVk9jRkrqAkzpdxELw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <580d7f46-e306-f41d-09e6-9c5d1b480ed0@ya.ru>

 >Why would you want that?

LCL can have global var for FormTitle. this var can  be used by all 
forms. so all forms will be "themed". if programmer changes this glob 
var (like we can do with THintWindow) then all windows have themed 
window title.


-- 
Regards,
Alexey


From aaa5500 at ya.ru  Tue Sep 12 20:01:13 2017
From: aaa5500 at ya.ru (Alexey)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 21:01:13 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
Message-ID: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>

Hi

It is new. Please rename (it's easy for new component) all files: 
usually its good with one prefix. E.g. fprep_*.*.

And form resources: 18 LFM files, 29 pas files. Pls rename with prefix 
too, to avoid LFM conflicts.

-- 
Regards,
Alexey


From michael at freepascal.org  Tue Sep 12 20:07:58 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 20:07:58 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709122007410.16417@home.telenet.be>



On Tue, 12 Sep 2017, Alexey via Lazarus wrote:

> Hi
>
> It is new. Please rename (it's easy for new component) all files: 
> usually its good with one prefix. E.g. fprep_*.*.

Definitely not.

Michael.

From aaa5500 at ya.ru  Tue Sep 12 20:21:15 2017
From: aaa5500 at ya.ru (Alexey)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 21:21:15 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709122007410.16417@home.telenet.be>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709122007410.16417@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <a1a84925-fda0-3bd6-9343-34c13ff34d5e@ya.ru>

 >Definitely not.

It is good to do (some users will see filename conflicts in big apps). 
no big apps ready on FPRep yet.

-- 
Regards,
Alexey


From michael at freepascal.org  Tue Sep 12 20:25:02 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 20:25:02 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <a1a84925-fda0-3bd6-9343-34c13ff34d5e@ya.ru>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709122007410.16417@home.telenet.be>
 <a1a84925-fda0-3bd6-9343-34c13ff34d5e@ya.ru>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709122023050.16941@home.telenet.be>



On Tue, 12 Sep 2017, Alexey via Lazarus wrote:

>> Definitely not.
>
> It is good to do (some users will see filename conflicts in big apps). 
> no big apps ready on FPRep yet.

Why would people see filename conflicts ? 
None of these files exist yet.

And there are already apps in production using fpreport.

Michael.

From aaa5500 at ya.ru  Tue Sep 12 20:32:57 2017
From: aaa5500 at ya.ru (Alexey)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 21:32:57 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709122023050.16941@home.telenet.be>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709122007410.16417@home.telenet.be>
 <a1a84925-fda0-3bd6-9343-34c13ff34d5e@ya.ru>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709122023050.16941@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <b2f4aee7-ff2b-35de-cfa3-50956dabf992@ya.ru>

On 12.09.2017 21:25, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
> Why would people see filename conflicts ? None of these files exist yet.

because files like

dlginputcombo.pp,  fradbfdata.*, frmresizeelements.* may exist in BIG app.

-- 
Regards,
Alexey


From michael at freepascal.org  Tue Sep 12 20:36:13 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 20:36:13 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <b2f4aee7-ff2b-35de-cfa3-50956dabf992@ya.ru>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709122007410.16417@home.telenet.be>
 <a1a84925-fda0-3bd6-9343-34c13ff34d5e@ya.ru>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709122023050.16941@home.telenet.be>
 <b2f4aee7-ff2b-35de-cfa3-50956dabf992@ya.ru>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709122035270.17208@home.telenet.be>



On Tue, 12 Sep 2017, Alexey via Lazarus wrote:

> On 12.09.2017 21:25, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
>> Why would people see filename conflicts ? None of these files exist yet.
>
> because files like
>
> dlginputcombo.pp,  fradbfdata.*, frmresizeelements.* may exist in BIG app.

The ones without prefix can indeed be prefixed.

Michael.

From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Wed Sep 13 10:06:18 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 09:06:18 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
Message-ID: <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-12 19:01, Alexey via Lazarus wrote:
> It is new. Please rename (it's easy for new component) all files:
> usually its good with one prefix. E.g. fprep_*.*.

hahaha... I had the units like that, using underscores. eg: 
fpreport_export_aggpas.pas, fpreport_export_fpimage.pas etc.  Michael 
didn't like it, so it got renamed before it went into FPC Trunk. :)

The LCL related units could be prefixed though, as Michael mentioned.

Then again, maybe it's time FPC starts making use of namespaces and 
dotted unit names? Just a thought. In Delphi it is actually pretty 
useful and also stops unit name conflicts. FPC does need a bit more work 
though to fully support namespaces - at least the way Delphi uses it.

Regards,
   Graeme

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

From michael at freepascal.org  Wed Sep 13 10:44:23 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:44:23 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>



On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:

> On 2017-09-12 19:01, Alexey via Lazarus wrote:
>> It is new. Please rename (it's easy for new component) all files:
>> usually its good with one prefix. E.g. fprep_*.*.
>
> hahaha... I had the units like that, using underscores. eg: 
> fpreport_export_aggpas.pas, fpreport_export_fpimage.pas etc.  Michael 
> didn't like it, so it got renamed before it went into FPC Trunk. :)
>
> The LCL related units could be prefixed though, as Michael mentioned.

They should be, since some of the names used in the designer are indeed too
generic.

> Then again, maybe it's time FPC starts making use of namespaces and 
> dotted unit names? Just a thought. In Delphi it is actually pretty 
> useful and also stops unit name conflicts. FPC does need a bit more work 
> though to fully support namespaces - at least the way Delphi uses it.

As long as there are no command-line switch and directive for setting 
namespaces, they are completely useless. And even with them, the benefit is
doubtful.

The benefit of writing fpreport.exporthtml versus fpreportexporthtml is zero.

And even with the command-line switch, the 'namespaces stop unit name conflicts' 
argument is of course complete nonsense.

Whoever originally tossed that argument into the world needs to be ridiculed for
either being stupid or not thinking his argument through.

because 
a) I could equally easy decide to use the same namespace as someone else.
    (Yes, I have a notoriously bad character)

b) If you use the namespace param too much, you are in trouble anyway.

Imagine:

web.utils.pas
os.utils.pas

and in my project I have (I love to use the namespace param)

uses utils;

And now I compile with a (hypothetical) /NSweb /NSos -> problem.

I tested in Delphi:

c:\Temp>dcc32 /NSos /NSweb testns.dpr
Embarcadero Delphi for Win32 compiler version 30.0
Copyright (c) 1983,2015 Embarcadero Technologies, Inc.
os.utils.pas(14)
testns.dpr(6) Error: E2003 Undeclared identifier: 'webfunction'
testns.dpr(7)

webfunction is in the web.utils.pas unit.

So, to disambiguate, that forces me to write

uses web.utils;

in which case I can just as well have written

uses webutils;

So we're back to square 1.

Michael.

From mlnglsts at bgss.hu  Wed Sep 13 10:51:25 2017
From: mlnglsts at bgss.hu (Gabor Boros)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:51:25 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] LazReport - Issues 26971 and 30466
Message-ID: <8068ca6b-eb58-6df4-f13c-86e31709f3ef@bgss.hu>

Hi All,

https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=26971

~3 years later. Any idea?

https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=30466

The KeepChild feature is very important from my POV. Please review the 
patch. (I have not tried yet.)

Gabor

From nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de  Wed Sep 13 11:13:16 2017
From: nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de (Mattias Gaertner)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:13:16 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <20170913111316.2d901692@limapholos.matflo.wg>

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:44:23 +0200 (CEST)
Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

>[...]
> As long as there are no command-line switch and directive for setting 
> namespaces, they are completely useless. And even with them, the benefit is
> doubtful.
> 
> The benefit of writing fpreport.exporthtml versus fpreportexporthtml is zero.

It's a little bit better than zero. For example shorter uses clause.

 
> And even with the command-line switch, the 'namespaces stop unit name conflicts' 
> argument is of course complete nonsense.

True.

 
>[...]
> I tested in Delphi:
> 
> c:\Temp>dcc32 /NSos /NSweb testns.dpr  
> Embarcadero Delphi for Win32 compiler version 30.0
> Copyright (c) 1983,2015 Embarcadero Technologies, Inc.
> os.utils.pas(14)
> testns.dpr(6) Error: E2003 Undeclared identifier: 'webfunction'
> testns.dpr(7)
> 
> webfunction is in the web.utils.pas unit.

Did you add "uses utils"?
There is no switch to use "web.*" like in Java.

 
> So, to disambiguate, that forces me to write
> 
> uses web.utils;

"uses utils" should be enough.

Mattias

From pascaldragon at googlemail.com  Wed Sep 13 11:19:58 2017
From: pascaldragon at googlemail.com (Sven Barth)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:19:58 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>

Am 13.09.2017 10:45 schrieb "Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus" <
lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>:
>
>
>
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:
>
>> On 2017-09-12 19:01, Alexey via Lazarus wrote:
>>>
>>> It is new. Please rename (it's easy for new component) all files:
>>> usually its good with one prefix. E.g. fprep_*.*.
>>
>>
>> hahaha... I had the units like that, using underscores. eg:
fpreport_export_aggpas.pas, fpreport_export_fpimage.pas etc.  Michael
didn't like it, so it got renamed before it went into FPC Trunk. :)
>>
>> The LCL related units could be prefixed though, as Michael mentioned.
>
>
> They should be, since some of the names used in the designer are indeed
too
> generic.
>
>
>> Then again, maybe it's time FPC starts making use of namespaces and
dotted unit names? Just a thought. In Delphi it is actually pretty useful
and also stops unit name conflicts. FPC does need a bit more work though to
fully support namespaces - at least the way Delphi uses it.
>
>
> As long as there are no command-line switch and directive for setting
namespaces, they are completely useless. And even with them, the benefit is
> doubtful.
>
> The benefit of writing fpreport.exporthtml versus fpreportexporthtml is
zero.
>

The "." allows for a nicer disambiguation between what's the prefix and
what's the remainder. Granted, that can be done with "_" as well, but in my
personal opinion a "." simply looks nicer. :)

Regards,
Sven
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From wkitty42 at windstream.net  Wed Sep 13 11:22:27 2017
From: wkitty42 at windstream.net (wkitty42 at windstream.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 05:22:27 -0400
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <20170913111316.2d901692@limapholos.matflo.wg>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <20170913111316.2d901692@limapholos.matflo.wg>
Message-ID: <e0d6e01a-fdff-afeb-25d4-6f691bdc4bdc@windstream.net>

On 09/13/2017 05:13 AM, Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:44:23 +0200 (CEST)
> Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>> [...]
>> I tested in Delphi:
>>
>> c:\Temp>dcc32 /NSos /NSweb testns.dpr
>> Embarcadero Delphi for Win32 compiler version 30.0
>> Copyright (c) 1983,2015 Embarcadero Technologies, Inc.
>> os.utils.pas(14)
>> testns.dpr(6) Error: E2003 Undeclared identifier: 'webfunction'
>> testns.dpr(7)
>>
>> webfunction is in the web.utils.pas unit.
> 
> Did you add "uses utils"?

ummm...

On 09/13/2017 04:44 AM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
[...]
 > Imagine:
 >
 > web.utils.pas
 > os.utils.pas
 >
 > and in my project I have (I love to use the namespace param)
 >
 > *uses utils;*
 >
 > And now I compile with a (hypothetical) /NSweb /NSos -> problem.

;)

-- 
  NOTE: No off-list assistance is given without prior approval.
        *Please keep mailing list traffic on the list unless*
        *a signed and pre-paid contract is in effect with us.*

From michael at freepascal.org  Wed Sep 13 11:28:55 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:28:55 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <20170913111316.2d901692@limapholos.matflo.wg>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <20170913111316.2d901692@limapholos.matflo.wg>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131118560.15435@home.telenet.be>



On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:44:23 +0200 (CEST)
> Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> As long as there are no command-line switch and directive for setting 
>> namespaces, they are completely useless. And even with them, the benefit is
>> doubtful.
>> 
>> The benefit of writing fpreport.exporthtml versus fpreportexporthtml is zero.
>
> It's a little bit better than zero. For example shorter uses clause.

Without using a switch to set namespaces ? Please Explain ?


>> os.utils.pas(14)
>> testns.dpr(6) Error: E2003 Undeclared identifier: 'webfunction'
>> testns.dpr(7)
>> 
>> webfunction is in the web.utils.pas unit.
>
> Did you add "uses utils"?

Yes, obviously. Here is the test program:

program testns;

uses utils;

begin
   writeln(webfunction);
end.

unit web.utils;

interface

function webfunction : string;

implementation

function webfunction : string;

begin
   Result:='web';
end;

end.

unit os.utils;

interface

function osfunction : string;

implementation

function osfunction : string;

begin
   Result:='os';
end;

end.

> There is no switch to use "web.*" like in Java.

In Delphi there is: /NSweb.

But as soon as you use 2 namespaces (/NSos /NSWeb), you are stuck. 
As you see from the output I posted, it compiles first os.utils 
and uses that to satisfy the "uses utils;".

To be complete: it depends on the order of the NS switches, if you reverse 
the order, it will work - but that doesn't help if you have a big project 
which has many units using utils from one or the other namespace. 
The first one wins.

>> So, to disambiguate, that forces me to write
>> 
>> uses web.utils;
>
> "uses utils" should be enough.

As I demonstrated: it clearly is not.

I carefully tested everything before posting my remark.

Michael.

From michael at freepascal.org  Wed Sep 13 11:30:40 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:30:40 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131129170.15435@home.telenet.be>



On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Sven Barth via Lazarus wrote:

>>
>> As long as there are no command-line switch and directive for setting
> namespaces, they are completely useless. And even with them, the benefit is
>> doubtful.
>>
>> The benefit of writing fpreport.exporthtml versus fpreportexporthtml is
> zero.
>>
>
> The "." allows for a nicer disambiguation between what's the prefix and
> what's the remainder.

Oh please...

> Granted, that can be done with "_" as well, but in my
> personal opinion a "." simply looks nicer. :)

It's an extra character. 
When using CamelCase properly, you don't need _ or . at all.

Michael.

From el.es.cr at gmail.com  Wed Sep 13 11:35:09 2017
From: el.es.cr at gmail.com (el es)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:35:09 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <opau45$h8l$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 13/09/17 10:19, Sven Barth via Lazarus wrote:
> Am 13.09.2017 10:45 schrieb "Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus"

>> The benefit of writing fpreport.exporthtml versus
>> fpreportexporthtml is zero.
>> 
> 
> The "." allows for a nicer disambiguation between what's the prefix
> and what's the remainder. Granted, that can be done with "_" as well,
> but in my personal opinion a "." simply looks nicer. :)
> 
> Regards, Sven

>From POV of an 'ordinary user' I came to say the same thing


> fpreportexporthtml 
> fpreport.exporthtml 

is exactly only 1 character longer but the separator (. or _) makes a lot of difference...

-L.


From nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de  Wed Sep 13 11:40:23 2017
From: nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de (Mattias Gaertner)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:40:23 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170913114023.225c2e8c@limapholos.matflo.wg>

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:19:58 +0200
Sven Barth via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

>[...]
> The "." allows for a nicer disambiguation between what's the prefix and
> what's the remainder. Granted, that can be done with "_" as well, but in my
> personal opinion a "." simply looks nicer. :)

I don't get why disambiguity is "nicer". The compiler has to
backstep and try all combinations to find out what a.b.c means.

Mattias

From lazarus at kluug.net  Wed Sep 13 11:40:52 2017
From: lazarus at kluug.net (Ondrej Pokorny)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:40:52 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <41c0991c-e46b-995f-ff15-05c810e3b9d0@kluug.net>

On 13.09.2017 10:44, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
>
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:
>
>> On 2017-09-12 19:01, Alexey via Lazarus wrote:
>>> It is new. Please rename (it's easy for new component) all files:
>>> usually its good with one prefix. E.g. fprep_*.*.
>>
>> hahaha... I had the units like that, using underscores. eg: 
>> fpreport_export_aggpas.pas, fpreport_export_fpimage.pas etc. Michael 
>> didn't like it, so it got renamed before it went into FPC Trunk. :)
>>
>> The LCL related units could be prefixed though, as Michael mentioned.
>
> They should be, since some of the names used in the designer are 
> indeed too
> generic.
>
>> Then again, maybe it's time FPC starts making use of namespaces and 
>> dotted unit names? Just a thought. In Delphi it is actually pretty 
>> useful and also stops unit name conflicts. FPC does need a bit more 
>> work though to fully support namespaces - at least the way Delphi 
>> uses it.
>
> As long as there are no command-line switch and directive for setting 
> namespaces, they are completely useless. And even with them, the 
> benefit is
> doubtful.
>
> The benefit of writing fpreport.exporthtml versus fpreportexporthtml 
> is zero. 

You forgot one thing: third-party libraries. E.g. your fpReport could 
use the "fprep" namespace. In the fpReport package you then define to 
use the fprep namespace - it means you can use units in fpReport without 
the "fprep" namespace - and without any collisions.

In the main application you have the choice if you want to add the fprep 
namespace and can use fpReport units without the namespace or not. 
Collisions have to be resolved with the namespace anyway - but this is 
no really drawback.

Furthermore code tools can handle dotted units (I added the support :) ) 
and namespaces will be handled as well once FPC supports them.

So yes, namespaces are good :) - or at least they are no harm. It's your 
decision not to use them - they won't break anything.

Ondrej

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From nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de  Wed Sep 13 11:58:55 2017
From: nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de (Mattias Gaertner)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:58:55 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <20170913114023.225c2e8c@limapholos.matflo.wg>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913114023.225c2e8c@limapholos.matflo.wg>
Message-ID: <20170913115855.279e185d@limapholos.matflo.wg>

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:40:23 +0200
Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:19:58 +0200
> Sven Barth via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> 
> >[...]
> > The "." allows for a nicer disambiguation between what's the prefix and
> > what's the remainder. Granted, that can be done with "_" as well, but in my
> > personal opinion a "." simply looks nicer. :)  
> 
> I don't get why disambiguity is "nicer". The compiler has to
> backstep and try all combinations to find out what a.b.c means.

I meant ambiguity. ;)

Mattias

From michael at freepascal.org  Wed Sep 13 12:03:05 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:03:05 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <41c0991c-e46b-995f-ff15-05c810e3b9d0@kluug.net>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <41c0991c-e46b-995f-ff15-05c810e3b9d0@kluug.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131200340.17078@home.telenet.be>



On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Ondrej Pokorny via Lazarus wrote:

>> The benefit of writing fpreport.exporthtml versus fpreportexporthtml is 
>> zero. 
>
> You forgot one thing: third-party libraries. E.g. your fpReport could use the 
> "fprep" namespace. In the fpReport package you then define to use the fprep 
> namespace - it means you can use units in fpReport without the "fprep" 
> namespace - and without any collisions.

This is demonstrably not correct.

It is *Only* correct if there are not 2 namespaces with the same unit in
your project.

See my example program, it demonstrates exactly that.

Michael.

From michael at freepascal.org  Wed Sep 13 12:10:03 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:10:03 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <20170913115012.69bc7a89@limapholos.matflo.wg>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <20170913111316.2d901692@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131118560.15435@home.telenet.be>
 <20170913115012.69bc7a89@limapholos.matflo.wg>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131151450.17078@home.telenet.be>



On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Mattias Gaertner wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:28:55 +0200 (CEST)
> Michael Van Canneyt <michael at freepascal.org> wrote:
>
>> [...]
>>>> The benefit of writing fpreport.exporthtml versus fpreportexporthtml is zero.
>>>
>>> It's a little bit better than zero. For example shorter uses clause.
>>
>> Without using a switch to set namespaces ? Please Explain ?
>
> Namespaces without the switch are pretty useless. I thought you were
> talking about namespaces as in Delphi. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

They are one and the same.

>> [...]
>>> Did you add "uses utils"?
>>
>> Yes, obviously. Here is the test program:
>
> I see now that your point was the order of namespaces. Which is an
> issue with unit paths as well. But with namespaces you can always pass
> the whole unit name, while with unit paths you cannot. So I'm not sure
> why the order is an argument against namespaces.

Because, as I demonstrated, the order issue forces you to disambiguate the unit names anyway.

Writing "uses utils;" is ambiguous if you are using 2 namespaces which both
have a "utils" unit, and you use both of them somewhere in your project.

We are agreed on that, I hope.

So, to avoid this, you must write "uses web.utils" and "uses os.utils"
(using my example).

So, if you write a class library (using a namespace) with many units, 
you don't know in what environment it will be used, and what namespaces 
the end user will use on the command line (or maybe none).

So, you must make sure all your code is unambiguous, i.e. write
"namespace.unitname" everywhere.

The same is true for the end-user. (see my demonstration program).

So if you must disambiguate anyway (i.e. write web.utils). 
the whole point of using a namespace ("shorter names") becomes moot.

I am not trying to dissuade anyone from using namespaces.

I am trying to debunk a myth, namely that it will avoid unit name clashes.
It does not, and in certain circumstances (using /NS switch) makes the 
problem only worse.

The end point - what got all this started - is that whether you use

fpreportutils.pp
or
fpreport.utils.pp

is a matter of personal preference only. 
Using the latter does not avoid the possibility of name clashes.

Michael.

From lazarus at kluug.net  Wed Sep 13 12:12:33 2017
From: lazarus at kluug.net (Ondrej Pokorny)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:12:33 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131200340.17078@home.telenet.be>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <41c0991c-e46b-995f-ff15-05c810e3b9d0@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131200340.17078@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <56310cd0-b32c-fdb7-6cfa-722e8b96fc4e@kluug.net>

On 13.09.2017 12:03, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Ondrej Pokorny via Lazarus wrote:
>
>>> The benefit of writing fpreport.exporthtml versus fpreportexporthtml 
>>> is zero. 
>>
>> You forgot one thing: third-party libraries. E.g. your fpReport could 
>> use the "fprep" namespace. In the fpReport package you then define to 
>> use the fprep namespace - it means you can use units in fpReport 
>> without the "fprep" namespace - and without any collisions.
>
> This is demonstrably not correct.
>
> It is *Only* correct if there are not 2 namespaces with the same unit in
> your project.
>
> See my example program, it demonstrates exactly that.

You didn't understand me. I was talking about a 3rd party library 
package and not about your/my project.

Of course there can be collisions - if it happens you have to resolve 
them with explicit namespaces.

Ondrej

From michael at freepascal.org  Wed Sep 13 12:28:22 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 12:28:22 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <56310cd0-b32c-fdb7-6cfa-722e8b96fc4e@kluug.net>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <41c0991c-e46b-995f-ff15-05c810e3b9d0@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131200340.17078@home.telenet.be>
 <56310cd0-b32c-fdb7-6cfa-722e8b96fc4e@kluug.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131227410.17078@home.telenet.be>



On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Ondrej Pokorny via Lazarus wrote:

> On 13.09.2017 12:03, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Ondrej Pokorny via Lazarus wrote:
>>
>>>> The benefit of writing fpreport.exporthtml versus fpreportexporthtml 
>>>> is zero. 
>>>
>>> You forgot one thing: third-party libraries. E.g. your fpReport could 
>>> use the "fprep" namespace. In the fpReport package you then define to 
>>> use the fprep namespace - it means you can use units in fpReport 
>>> without the "fprep" namespace - and without any collisions.
>>
>> This is demonstrably not correct.
>>
>> It is *Only* correct if there are not 2 namespaces with the same unit in
>> your project.
>>
>> See my example program, it demonstrates exactly that.
>
> You didn't understand me. I was talking about a 3rd party library 
> package and not about your/my project.

Yes. And the same is true for this package.

>
> Of course there can be collisions - if it happens you have to resolve 
> them with explicit namespaces.

Making the whole point moot.

Michael.

From zeljko at holobit.net  Wed Sep 13 13:58:11 2017
From: zeljko at holobit.net (zeljko)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 13:58:11 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] LazReport - Issues 26971 and 30466
In-Reply-To: <8068ca6b-eb58-6df4-f13c-86e31709f3ef@bgss.hu>
References: <8068ca6b-eb58-6df4-f13c-86e31709f3ef@bgss.hu>
Message-ID: <c61ef478-404f-986b-72f6-12aeb0c37aab@holobit.net>

On 09/13/2017 10:51 AM, Gabor Boros via Lazarus wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=26971
> 
> ~3 years later. Any idea?

No

zeljko

From pascaldragon at googlemail.com  Wed Sep 13 14:38:55 2017
From: pascaldragon at googlemail.com (Sven Barth)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 14:38:55 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <20170913115855.279e185d@limapholos.matflo.wg>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913114023.225c2e8c@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <20170913115855.279e185d@limapholos.matflo.wg>
Message-ID: <CAFMUeB8Ej3txiDWaWcAhqgVQCtOpXtNwOYg7_J=-QKCJZZY9Ww@mail.gmail.com>

Am 13.09.2017 11:59 schrieb "Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus" <
lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>:
>
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:40:23 +0200
> Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 11:19:58 +0200
> > Sven Barth via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> >
> > >[...]
> > > The "." allows for a nicer disambiguation between what's the prefix
and
> > > what's the remainder. Granted, that can be done with "_" as well, but
in my
> > > personal opinion a "." simply looks nicer. :)
> >
> > I don't get why disambiguity is "nicer". The compiler has to
> > backstep and try all combinations to find out what a.b.c means.
>
> I meant ambiguity. ;)

I'm not talking about ambiguity, I'm talking about aesthetics: FooBar.Blubb
is easier to discern visually than FooBarBlubb.

Also were is there an ambiguity anyway (given all units are used with their
full name)? The compiler reads (in my above example) the token sequence ID
Point ID and thus can find the unit without any backtracking just as for
ordinary methods. Even once the default namespace option is added that
won't change as the compiler will simply test all provided namespaces as
prefixes and then the name as is. It's just a longer list of names than
usually to test for.

Regards,
Sven
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From nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de  Wed Sep 13 15:33:35 2017
From: nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de (Mattias Gaertner)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 15:33:35 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <CAFMUeB8Ej3txiDWaWcAhqgVQCtOpXtNwOYg7_J=-QKCJZZY9Ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913114023.225c2e8c@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <20170913115855.279e185d@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <CAFMUeB8Ej3txiDWaWcAhqgVQCtOpXtNwOYg7_J=-QKCJZZY9Ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170913153335.1e40b79b@limapholos.matflo.wg>

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 14:38:55 +0200
Sven Barth via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

>[...]
> I'm not talking about ambiguity, I'm talking about aesthetics: FooBar.Blubb
> is easier to discern visually than FooBarBlubb.

Well, aesthetics often goes together with "used to".
I'm used to a point separates a sub identifier.
The Delphi namespace concept breaks this rule. E.g. in a namespace
"org.fpc" the dot is part of the identifier. Try "org.|" with the
Delphi code insight. It does not show all possibilities. Lazarus code
completion works better here.

 
> Also were is there an ambiguity anyway (given all units are used with their
> full name)? The compiler reads (in my above example) the token sequence ID
> Point ID and thus can find the unit without any backtracking just as for
> ordinary methods. Even once the default namespace option is added that
> won't change as the compiler will simply test all provided namespaces as
> prefixes and then the name as is. It's just a longer list of names than
> usually to test for.

Let's say you have 'a.b.c.d'. Before namespaces the compiler could
simply resolve a, then b, then c and finally d.
With namespaces the compiler has to read the full 'a.b.c.d', 
then search for a.b.c, then a.b, then a and then resolve the rest as
before.

For example:

program unitdots.main1:
uses unitdots.unit1, unitdots;
type
  TPrgBright = unitdots.tbright;
  TPrgColor = unitdots.unit1.tcolor;
  TStrange = unitdots.main1.tprgcolor;
var k1: longint;
begin
  if unitdots.main1.k1=0 then ;
  if unitdots.j1=0 then ;
  if unitdots.unit1.i1=0 then ;


Mattias

From pascaldragon at googlemail.com  Wed Sep 13 17:09:01 2017
From: pascaldragon at googlemail.com (Sven Barth)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 17:09:01 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <20170913153335.1e40b79b@limapholos.matflo.wg>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913114023.225c2e8c@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <20170913115855.279e185d@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <CAFMUeB8Ej3txiDWaWcAhqgVQCtOpXtNwOYg7_J=-QKCJZZY9Ww@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913153335.1e40b79b@limapholos.matflo.wg>
Message-ID: <CAFMUeB-E4_K=nqYRXtv5ZX2NGDbK-hWfmixCa7_=GsFvkCk0OQ@mail.gmail.com>

Am 13.09.2017 15:33 schrieb "Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus" <
lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>:
>
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 14:38:55 +0200
> Sven Barth via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>
> >[...]
> > I'm not talking about ambiguity, I'm talking about aesthetics:
FooBar.Blubb
> > is easier to discern visually than FooBarBlubb.
>
> Well, aesthetics often goes together with "used to".
> I'm used to a point separates a sub identifier.
> The Delphi namespace concept breaks this rule. E.g. in a namespace
> "org.fpc" the dot is part of the identifier. Try "org.|" with the
> Delphi code insight. It does not show all possibilities. Lazarus code
> completion works better here.

We all know that Delphi isn't the best example of an IDE out there :P

> > Also were is there an ambiguity anyway (given all units are used with
their
> > full name)? The compiler reads (in my above example) the token sequence
ID
> > Point ID and thus can find the unit without any backtracking just as for
> > ordinary methods. Even once the default namespace option is added that
> > won't change as the compiler will simply test all provided namespaces as
> > prefixes and then the name as is. It's just a longer list of names than
> > usually to test for.
>
> Let's say you have 'a.b.c.d'. Before namespaces the compiler could
> simply resolve a, then b, then c and finally d.
> With namespaces the compiler has to read the full 'a.b.c.d',
> then search for a.b.c, then a.b, then a and then resolve the rest as
> before.

Ah, using the identifier inside code. Okay I grant you that one regarding
ambiguity...

Regards,
Sven
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From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Wed Sep 13 17:09:15 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 16:09:15 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <2c25027e-1298-6d1a-8433-d88ce0f1f0f5@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-13 09:44, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
> As long as there are no command-line switch and directive for setting
> namespaces, they are completely useless.

Like I said, FPC still needs a bit more work before namespaces become 
more useful (or workable like Delphi intended).


 > And even with the command-line switch, the 'namespaces stop unit name
 > conflicts'argument is of course complete nonsense.

It can greatly reduce conflicts. I would follow the Java namespace 
convention, and add a company name or organization as part of the namespace.

So fpreportexporthtml.pp would become:

   fpc.fpreport.export.html.pp

Granted that is a long unit name, but so is the original, and at least 
the dotted name reads much easier. Human minds don't read all lowercase 
or all uppercase combined words very easily - just look at MSEide's 
code. Only Martin likes that (and maybe you). ;-)

Anyway, I would suggest all FPC units are prefixed with the "fpc." 
namespace.

An example where namespaces do work well, is in tiOPF's "tiopf3" branch. 
The same unit names exist in VCL and FMX. Using namespaces as part of 
the target platform you want, it automatically helps resolve which unit 
you are referring to. So yes, we can show pros and cons to namespaces.




Regards,
   Graeme

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

From nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de  Wed Sep 13 17:11:27 2017
From: nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de (Mattias Gaertner)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 17:11:27 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] PasCon for Lazarus 2017 conference announcement
Message-ID: <20170913171127.214aac2e@limapholos.matflo.wg>

Hi all,

The annual PasCon for Lazarus conference is this time on 14th Oct:
http://www.blaisepascal.eu/agenda/lazarus_conference.php

The conference is organized by Blaise Pascal Magazine and takes place in
IJsselstein, Netherland. 


Mattias

From michael at freepascal.org  Wed Sep 13 17:35:57 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 17:35:57 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <2c25027e-1298-6d1a-8433-d88ce0f1f0f5@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <2c25027e-1298-6d1a-8433-d88ce0f1f0f5@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131723280.28428@home.telenet.be>



On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:

> On 2017-09-13 09:44, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
>> As long as there are no command-line switch and directive for setting
>> namespaces, they are completely useless.
>
> Like I said, FPC still needs a bit more work before namespaces become 
> more useful (or workable like Delphi intended).
>
>
> > And even with the command-line switch, the 'namespaces stop unit name
> > conflicts'argument is of course complete nonsense.
>
> It can greatly reduce conflicts. 
>
> So fpreportexporthtml.pp would become:
>
>   fpc.fpreport.export.html.pp

Please take a good look at what you are writing.

You are _seriously_ telling me that the chance of conflicts is
"greatly reduced" when I use fpreport.export.html compared to
when I use fpreportexporthtml ?

Either the world or me has lost its marbles. 
I'm pretty sure it is not me. At last count, I still had them all.

(But then that would be normal if I was going crazy :))

I will not argue about readability; that's a matter of taste:
I much prefer FPReportExportHTML over fpreport_export_html or
fpreport.export.html.

Michael.

From lazarus at kluug.net  Wed Sep 13 18:09:40 2017
From: lazarus at kluug.net (Ondrej Pokorny)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 18:09:40 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <20170913153335.1e40b79b@limapholos.matflo.wg>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913114023.225c2e8c@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <20170913115855.279e185d@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <CAFMUeB8Ej3txiDWaWcAhqgVQCtOpXtNwOYg7_J=-QKCJZZY9Ww@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913153335.1e40b79b@limapholos.matflo.wg>
Message-ID: <79836097-4853-0f19-5fe0-ab40543ff4f1@kluug.net>

On 13.09.2017 15:33, Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus wrote:
>> Also were is there an ambiguity anyway (given all units are used with their
>> full name)? The compiler reads (in my above example) the token sequence ID
>> Point ID and thus can find the unit without any backtracking just as for
>> ordinary methods. Even once the default namespace option is added that
>> won't change as the compiler will simply test all provided namespaces as
>> prefixes and then the name as is. It's just a longer list of names than
>> usually to test for.
> Let's say you have 'a.b.c.d'. Before namespaces the compiler could
> simply resolve a, then b, then c and finally d.
> With namespaces the compiler has to read the full 'a.b.c.d',
> then search for a.b.c, then a.b, then a and then resolve the rest as
> before.

I think you are wrong. I didn't study how the compiler resolves the 
identifiers internally, but when I developed dotted unit support for 
CodeTools I did it so: I register all namespaces and subnamespaces from 
known units (for uses clause) and used units (for implementation code) 
and resolve the identifiers from left to right - easy and how it's 
always been.

In your example you always know if 'a' is a namespace or an identifier. 
The identifier always wins agains a namespace:

unit ns1.Unit1;
interface
var
   A: string;
   ns1: Integer;
implementation
initialization
   ns1.Unit1.A := 'a'; // << error illegal identifier
end.

unit ns1.Unit2;
interface
var
   A: string;
   ns1: Integer;
implementation
uses
   ns1.Unit1; // error: duplicate identifier (bug in CodeTools: they 
don't show an error here because they don't test agains identifier in 
uses clause- but the compiler is correct)
initialization
   ns1 := 1;
end.

Everything looks like the compiler uses the same algorithm -> it first 
resolves a then b then c and so on, it doesn't need to go backwards.

Ondrej

From lazarus at kluug.net  Wed Sep 13 18:23:38 2017
From: lazarus at kluug.net (Ondrej Pokorny)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 18:23:38 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131227410.17078@home.telenet.be>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <41c0991c-e46b-995f-ff15-05c810e3b9d0@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131200340.17078@home.telenet.be>
 <56310cd0-b32c-fdb7-6cfa-722e8b96fc4e@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131227410.17078@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <b7d5eb20-d168-ced8-487e-605e90426c89@kluug.net>

On 13.09.2017 12:28, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Ondrej Pokorny via Lazarus wrote:
>> On 13.09.2017 12:03, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Ondrej Pokorny via Lazarus wrote:
>>>>> The benefit of writing fpreport.exporthtml versus 
>>>>> fpreportexporthtml is zero. 
>>>>
>>>> You forgot one thing: third-party libraries. E.g. your fpReport 
>>>> could use the "fprep" namespace. In the fpReport package you then 
>>>> define to use the fprep namespace - it means you can use units in 
>>>> fpReport without the "fprep" namespace - and without any collisions.
>>>
>>> This is demonstrably not correct.
>>>
>>> It is *Only* correct if there are not 2 namespaces with the same 
>>> unit in
>>> your project.
>>>
>>> See my example program, it demonstrates exactly that.
>>
>> You didn't understand me. I was talking about a 3rd party library 
>> package and not about your/my project.
>
> Yes. And the same is true for this package.

You can play this game forever...

>> Of course there can be collisions - if it happens you have to resolve 
>> them with explicit namespaces.
>
> Making the whole point moot.

You can understand namespaces and subnamespaces as a concept for folder 
structure within code.

Of course you can have every single file in root D:\ and use endless 
CamelCase names:
D:\MyCompanyAccounting201705Report1.xls
D:\MyCompanyAccounting201705Report2.xls

or you can have a decent folder structure:
D:\MyCompany\Accounting\2017\05\Report1.xls
D:\MyCompany\Accounting\2017\05\Report2.xls

It's up to you.

The -NSxyz is then similar to "use path" concept. If you see advantages 
in using folders you just have to admit there are also advantages when 
using namespaces.

Ondrej

From michael at freepascal.org  Wed Sep 13 20:17:02 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:17:02 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <b7d5eb20-d168-ced8-487e-605e90426c89@kluug.net>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <41c0991c-e46b-995f-ff15-05c810e3b9d0@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131200340.17078@home.telenet.be>
 <56310cd0-b32c-fdb7-6cfa-722e8b96fc4e@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131227410.17078@home.telenet.be>
 <b7d5eb20-d168-ced8-487e-605e90426c89@kluug.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131950170.30703@home.telenet.be>



On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:

>
>>> Of course there can be collisions - if it happens you have to resolve them 
>>> with explicit namespaces.
>> 
>> Making the whole point moot.
>
> You can understand namespaces and subnamespaces as a concept for folder 
> structure within code.
>
> Of course you can have every single file in root D:\ and use endless 
> CamelCase names:
> D:\MyCompanyAccounting201705Report1.xls
> D:\MyCompanyAccounting201705Report2.xls
>
> or you can have a decent folder structure:
> D:\MyCompany\Accounting\2017\05\Report1.xls
> D:\MyCompany\Accounting\2017\05\Report2.xls
>
> It's up to you.
>
> The -NSxyz is then similar to "use path" concept. If you see advantages in 
> using folders you just have to admit there are also advantages when using 
> namespaces.

The equivalent of

uses utils;

dcc32 /NSos /NSweb myprogram

in your example is the same as saying "find me Report1.xls, search in D:\MyCompany\Accounting\2017\05  and D:\MyCompany\Accounting\2016\05"

You will get an ambiguous answer.

Which is the whole problem as I was trying to explain.

That said, I use directory structure only to find files faster and group
them logically.

I would still name files in it uniquely. Using your example:

D:\MyCompany\Accounting\2017\05\MCA-Report-201705-2.xls

I will find the file quickly, and the name will still be unique. 
(within reasonable bounds)

Similarly, every field in a database I create is always uniquely named.
So if I ask "where is field TX_ID' I get exactly 1 field, in 1 table.
Graeme Geldenhuys can testify that I use this practice even in very big databases.

For the same reason: to avoid ambiguity.

Michael.

From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Wed Sep 13 20:19:12 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 19:19:12 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131129170.15435@home.telenet.be>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131129170.15435@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <c4affbf4-3ff8-c88d-08f7-775285c4abdd@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-13 10:30, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
> When using CamelCase properly, you don't need _ or . at all.

That would be my preference too. I love CamelCase - though personally I 
lowercase my unit names (files), but CamelCase the "unit xxx" line 
inside the unit.

Now the next question - how well does FPC (compiler and all utilities 
included with FPC) handle camel case units on case sensitive file systems?

Regards,
   Graeme


From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Wed Sep 13 20:24:38 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 19:24:38 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <20170913153335.1e40b79b@limapholos.matflo.wg>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913114023.225c2e8c@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <20170913115855.279e185d@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <CAFMUeB8Ej3txiDWaWcAhqgVQCtOpXtNwOYg7_J=-QKCJZZY9Ww@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913153335.1e40b79b@limapholos.matflo.wg>
Message-ID: <ab0171f3-76df-10f6-6109-f38ef120f4d8@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-13 14:33, Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus wrote:
> Try "org.|" with the
> Delphi code insight.

Don't get me started on that again. The Delphi IDE is horribly horribly 
broken in comparison to Lazarus IDE. It two weeks of working with Delphi 
XE the other week I managed to find 13 bugs in the IDE alone - some 
known for years, others unknown. All were confirmed by other Delphi 
developers on the Internet. None were fixed in the latest Delphi Seattle 
(or whatever the hell the latest version is). Delphi is in a dark place.

Regards,
   Graeme

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Wed Sep 13 20:33:16 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 19:33:16 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131950170.30703@home.telenet.be>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <41c0991c-e46b-995f-ff15-05c810e3b9d0@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131200340.17078@home.telenet.be>
 <56310cd0-b32c-fdb7-6cfa-722e8b96fc4e@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131227410.17078@home.telenet.be>
 <b7d5eb20-d168-ced8-487e-605e90426c89@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131950170.30703@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <a1ab8707-82ab-2958-d311-02945747df8d@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-13 19:17, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
> Similarly, every field in a database I create is always uniquely named.
> So if I ask "where is field TX_ID' I get exactly 1 field, in 1 table.
> Graeme Geldenhuys can testify that I use this practice even in very big databases.

I can confirm that. :)

Regards,
   Graeme


From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Wed Sep 13 20:34:58 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 19:34:58 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <41c0991c-e46b-995f-ff15-05c810e3b9d0@kluug.net>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <41c0991c-e46b-995f-ff15-05c810e3b9d0@kluug.net>
Message-ID: <31ba9f77-6ba4-ea0c-f38b-49d5ab4d4a30@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-13 10:40, Ondrej Pokorny via Lazarus wrote:
> Furthermore code tools can handle dotted units (I added the support:)  )
> and namespaces will be handled as well once FPC supports them.

Excellent!!! The development tools are waiting for the underlying 
compiler to catch up. Only in the open source world. :-D

Regards,
   Graeme


From vojtech.cihak at atlas.cz  Wed Sep 13 20:42:21 2017
From: vojtech.cihak at atlas.cz (=?utf-8?q?Vojt=C4=9Bch_=C4=8Cih=C3=A1k?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:42:21 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] =?utf-8?q?FPReport_file_names?=
In-Reply-To: 000000007c9f0000f5a00136505f
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>,
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>,
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131129170.15435@home.telenet.be>
 000000007c9f0000f5a00136505f
Message-ID: <20170913204221.3B0C45B4@atlas.cz>

Hi,
 
in fact, it is called PascalCase, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PascalCase
 
V.
______________________________________________________________
> Od: Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>
> Komu: lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org
> Datum: 13.09.2017 20:19
> Předmět: Re: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
>
On 2017-09-13 10:30, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
 > When using CamelCase properly, you don't need _ or . at all.
 
 That would be my preference too. I love CamelCase - though personally I 
 lowercase my unit names (files), but CamelCase the "unit xxx" line 
 inside the unit.
 
 Now the next question - how well does FPC (compiler and all utilities 
 included with FPC) handle camel case units on case sensitive file systems?
 
 Regards,
   Graeme
 
 -- 
 _______________________________________________
 Lazarus mailing list
 Lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org
 https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus <https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus>

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From nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de  Wed Sep 13 21:17:34 2017
From: nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de (Mattias Gaertner)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 21:17:34 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <79836097-4853-0f19-5fe0-ab40543ff4f1@kluug.net>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913114023.225c2e8c@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <20170913115855.279e185d@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <CAFMUeB8Ej3txiDWaWcAhqgVQCtOpXtNwOYg7_J=-QKCJZZY9Ww@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913153335.1e40b79b@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <79836097-4853-0f19-5fe0-ab40543ff4f1@kluug.net>
Message-ID: <20170913211734.34009b99@limapholos.matflo.wg>

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 18:09:40 +0200
Ondrej Pokorny via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

>[...]
> I think you are wrong.

Partly. I just didn't tell the whole story.

> I didn't study how the compiler resolves the 
> identifiers internally, but when I developed dotted unit support for 
> CodeTools I did it so: I register all namespaces and subnamespaces from 
> known units (for uses clause) and used units (for implementation code) 
> and resolve the identifiers from left to right - easy and how it's 
> always been.

Yes, and I extended your code even further.

 
> In your example you always know if 'a' is a namespace or an identifier. 
> The identifier always wins agains a namespace:
>
> unit ns1.Unit1;
> interface
> var
>    A: string;
>    ns1: Integer;
> implementation
> initialization
>    ns1.Unit1.A := 'a'; // << error illegal identifier

Correct. But if 'ns1' is part of a namespace, you have to search the
namespace with the most dots.


> end.
> 
> unit ns1.Unit2;
> interface
> var
>    A: string;
>    ns1: Integer;
> implementation
> uses
>    ns1.Unit1; // error: duplicate identifier (bug in CodeTools: they 
> don't show an error here because they don't test agains identifier in 
> uses clause- but the compiler is correct)

Codetools is usually more tolerant than the compiler.


> initialization
>    ns1 := 1;
> end.
> 
> Everything looks like the compiler uses the same algorithm -> it first 
> resolves a then b then c and so on, it doesn't need to go backwards.

It's not so simple. See my example for Sven:
...
uses unitdots.unit1, unitdots;
type
  TPrgBright = unitdots.tbright;
  TPrgColor = unitdots.unit1.tcolor; <--
...

Mattias

From lazarus at kluug.net  Wed Sep 13 21:57:50 2017
From: lazarus at kluug.net (Ondrej Pokorny)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 21:57:50 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <20170913211734.34009b99@limapholos.matflo.wg>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913114023.225c2e8c@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <20170913115855.279e185d@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <CAFMUeB8Ej3txiDWaWcAhqgVQCtOpXtNwOYg7_J=-QKCJZZY9Ww@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913153335.1e40b79b@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <79836097-4853-0f19-5fe0-ab40543ff4f1@kluug.net>
 <20170913211734.34009b99@limapholos.matflo.wg>
Message-ID: <13cb89b9-410f-d214-c08c-69a50a6823c1@kluug.net>

On 13.09.2017 21:17, Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus wrote:
>> Everything looks like the compiler uses the same algorithm -> it first
>> resolves a then b then c and so on, it doesn't need to go backwards.
> It's not so simple. See my example for Sven:
> ...
> uses unitdots.unit1, unitdots;
> type
>    TPrgBright = unitdots.tbright;
>    TPrgColor = unitdots.unit1.tcolor; <--
> ...

I don't get it :)
from left to right: is unitdots a namespace? -> yes -> is unit1 a 
subnamespace in unitdots? -> no -> is unit1 a file in unitdots 
namespace? -> yes -> find tcolor type in unitdots.unit1. Why do you need 
to read the identifier backwards?

+ Yes, I have a bug in CodeTools:

program unitdots.main1;
uses unitdots, unitdots.unit1;
type
   TPrgBright = unitdots.tbright;
   TPrgColor = unitdots.unit1.tcolor;
   TStrange = unitdots.main1.tprgcolor;
var k1: longint;
begin
   if unitdots.main1=0 then ; // << compiler error (codetools jump to 
"main1: integer;" in unitdots.pas)
   if unitdots.main1.k1=0 then ; // << OK (codetools don't find k1)
   if unitdots.j1=0 then ;
   if unitdots.unit1.i1=0 then ;
end.

unit unitdots;
interface
type
   tbright = (yes, no);
var
   main1: integer;
   unit1: integer;
   j1: integer;
implementation
end.

unit unitdots.unit1;
interface
type
   tcolor = integer;
var
   i1: tcolor;
implementation
end.

The namespace/unitname takes precedence before an identifier in an 
external unit. But it still looks to me like everything can be resolved 
from left to right - you just need to know the rules. CodeTools don't 
know this rule yet. But once they know it, they will resolve it correctly.

Ondrej

From lazarus at kluug.net  Wed Sep 13 22:02:07 2017
From: lazarus at kluug.net (Ondrej Pokorny)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 22:02:07 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <a1ab8707-82ab-2958-d311-02945747df8d@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <41c0991c-e46b-995f-ff15-05c810e3b9d0@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131200340.17078@home.telenet.be>
 <56310cd0-b32c-fdb7-6cfa-722e8b96fc4e@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131227410.17078@home.telenet.be>
 <b7d5eb20-d168-ced8-487e-605e90426c89@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131950170.30703@home.telenet.be>
 <a1ab8707-82ab-2958-d311-02945747df8d@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <b98a7595-61bf-38c8-8f79-1fcc989ddbc0@kluug.net>

On 13.09.2017 20:33, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:
> On 2017-09-13 19:17, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
>> Similarly, every field in a database I create is always uniquely named.
>> So if I ask "where is field TX_ID' I get exactly 1 field, in 1 table.
>> Graeme Geldenhuys can testify that I use this practice even in very 
>> big databases.
>
> I can confirm that. :)

Huh, that's hardcore :)

Just curious: how do you define foreign keys? E.g.
Customers.ID
Invoices.CustomerID
Orders.CustomerID

etc?

Ondrej

From pascaldragon at googlemail.com  Wed Sep 13 22:11:17 2017
From: pascaldragon at googlemail.com (Sven Barth)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 22:11:17 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <ab0171f3-76df-10f6-6109-f38ef120f4d8@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913114023.225c2e8c@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <20170913115855.279e185d@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <CAFMUeB8Ej3txiDWaWcAhqgVQCtOpXtNwOYg7_J=-QKCJZZY9Ww@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913153335.1e40b79b@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <ab0171f3-76df-10f6-6109-f38ef120f4d8@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c971e944-2a22-9e60-021b-6f87da1af7e0@googlemail.com>

On 13.09.2017 20:24, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:
> On 2017-09-13 14:33, Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus wrote:
>> Try "org.|" with the
>> Delphi code insight.
> 
> Don't get me started on that again. The Delphi IDE is horribly horribly
> broken in comparison to Lazarus IDE. It two weeks of working with Delphi
> XE the other week I managed to find 13 bugs in the IDE alone - some
> known for years, others unknown. All were confirmed by other Delphi
> developers on the Internet. None were fixed in the latest Delphi Seattle
> (or whatever the hell the latest version is). Delphi is in a dark place.

As if that was any news :P
I use Delphi solely to test features I want to implement in FPC ;)

Regards,
Sven


From pascaldragon at googlemail.com  Wed Sep 13 22:18:06 2017
From: pascaldragon at googlemail.com (Sven Barth)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 22:18:06 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <c4affbf4-3ff8-c88d-08f7-775285c4abdd@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131129170.15435@home.telenet.be>
 <c4affbf4-3ff8-c88d-08f7-775285c4abdd@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <152c93e6-8690-c0b3-d7fc-ed478d64df57@googlemail.com>

On 13.09.2017 20:19, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:
> On 2017-09-13 10:30, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
>> When using CamelCase properly, you don't need _ or . at all.
> 
> That would be my preference too. I love CamelCase - though personally I
> lowercase my unit names (files), but CamelCase the "unit xxx" line
> inside the unit.

Me, too :)

> Now the next question - how well does FPC (compiler and all utilities
> included with FPC) handle camel case units on case sensitive file systems?

The compiler always searches units in this order:
- as written in uses clause
- all lowercase
- all uppercase
(and this whole block for extensions .pp, .pas and .p)

This way on a case insensitive or case preserving (e.g. FAT, NTFS) file
system the correct one is found on the first try and on case sensitive
ones at least the way Lazarus by default stores units (lowercase files,
unitname as-is) on the second try.

Regards,
Sven

From michael at freepascal.org  Wed Sep 13 22:23:54 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 22:23:54 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <b98a7595-61bf-38c8-8f79-1fcc989ddbc0@kluug.net>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <41c0991c-e46b-995f-ff15-05c810e3b9d0@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131200340.17078@home.telenet.be>
 <56310cd0-b32c-fdb7-6cfa-722e8b96fc4e@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131227410.17078@home.telenet.be>
 <b7d5eb20-d168-ced8-487e-605e90426c89@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131950170.30703@home.telenet.be>
 <a1ab8707-82ab-2958-d311-02945747df8d@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <b98a7595-61bf-38c8-8f79-1fcc989ddbc0@kluug.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709132213370.6616@home.telenet.be>



On Wed, 13 Sep 2017, Ondrej Pokorny via Lazarus wrote:

> On 13.09.2017 20:33, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:
>> On 2017-09-13 19:17, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
>>> Similarly, every field in a database I create is always uniquely named.
>>> So if I ask "where is field TX_ID' I get exactly 1 field, in 1 table.
>>> Graeme Geldenhuys can testify that I use this practice even in very 
>>> big databases.
>>
>> I can confirm that. :)
>
> Huh, that's hardcore :)
>
> Just curious: how do you define foreign keys? E.g.
> Customers.ID
> Invoices.CustomerID
> Orders.CustomerID

create table customer (
   C_ID INT Primary key,
   C_FIRSTNAME VARCHAR(30),
   C_LASTNAME VARCHAR(50)
);

CREATE table invoice (
   I_ID INT PRIMARY KEY,
   I_CUSTOMER_FK INT,
   I_DATE DATE
);

ALTER TABLE INVOICE ADD CONSTRAINT R_INVOICE_CUSTOMER FOREIGN KEY (I_CUSTOMER_FK) REFERENCES CUSTOMER(C_ID) ON CASCADE DELETE;

3 "rules" :
Prefix is always somehow related to table name. Usually 1 or 2 letters.
Occasionaly 3 (if you have close to 600 tables, 2 letters doesn't always cut it)

Primary key is always Prefix_ID
Foreign key is always Prefix_FOREIGNTABLE_FK

The SQL you construct like this is always unambiguous, unless you use the
same table twice in a single SQL select there is never any need to prefix
the fields with the table name.

Michael.

From lazarus at kluug.net  Wed Sep 13 22:32:48 2017
From: lazarus at kluug.net (Ondrej Pokorny)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 22:32:48 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709132213370.6616@home.telenet.be>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <41c0991c-e46b-995f-ff15-05c810e3b9d0@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131200340.17078@home.telenet.be>
 <56310cd0-b32c-fdb7-6cfa-722e8b96fc4e@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131227410.17078@home.telenet.be>
 <b7d5eb20-d168-ced8-487e-605e90426c89@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131950170.30703@home.telenet.be>
 <a1ab8707-82ab-2958-d311-02945747df8d@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <b98a7595-61bf-38c8-8f79-1fcc989ddbc0@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709132213370.6616@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <65efdd49-bbca-7b4c-9a16-559ffe960fa5@kluug.net>

On 13.09.2017 22:23, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
> create table customer (
>   C_ID INT Primary key,
>   C_FIRSTNAME VARCHAR(30),
>   C_LASTNAME VARCHAR(50)
> );
>
> CREATE table invoice (
>   I_ID INT PRIMARY KEY,
>   I_CUSTOMER_FK INT,
>   I_DATE DATE
> );
>
> ALTER TABLE INVOICE ADD CONSTRAINT R_INVOICE_CUSTOMER FOREIGN KEY 
> (I_CUSTOMER_FK) REFERENCES CUSTOMER(C_ID) ON CASCADE DELETE;
>
> 3 "rules" :
> Prefix is always somehow related to table name. Usually 1 or 2 letters.
> Occasionaly 3 (if you have close to 600 tables, 2 letters doesn't 
> always cut it)
>
> Primary key is always Prefix_ID
> Foreign key is always Prefix_FOREIGNTABLE_FK
>
> The SQL you construct like this is always unambiguous, unless you use the
> same table twice in a single SQL select there is never any need to prefix
> the fields with the table name.

Interesting approach. I do the opposite: I always (really always, even 
in simple statements) prefix the fields with the table name (and really 
the full table name, not an abbreviation/alias) :) With it I get 
unambiguity as well. And I really hate abbreviations since I fail to 
remember them. :)

Everybody has their own taste - and it is good so. Otherwise we would 
all want to marry the same woman :)

Ondrej

From nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de  Thu Sep 14 00:03:11 2017
From: nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de (Mattias Gaertner)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 00:03:11 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <152c93e6-8690-c0b3-d7fc-ed478d64df57@googlemail.com>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131129170.15435@home.telenet.be>
 <c4affbf4-3ff8-c88d-08f7-775285c4abdd@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <152c93e6-8690-c0b3-d7fc-ed478d64df57@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <20170914000311.7f68555b@limapholos.matflo.wg>

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 22:18:06 +0200
Sven Barth via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

>[...]
> The compiler always searches units in this order:
> - as written in uses clause
> - all lowercase
> - all uppercase
> (and this whole block for extensions .pp, .pas and .p)

Note that uppercase also uppercase the extension.
I recommend to compile with -vt to see the details.

 
> This way on a case insensitive or case preserving (e.g. FAT, NTFS) file
> system the correct one is found on the first try and on case sensitive
> ones at least the way Lazarus by default stores units (lowercase files,
> unitname as-is) on the second try.

Hint: Lazarus code completion uses the correct case for unit
names even on Windows, which helps using mixed case.

Mattias

From nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de  Thu Sep 14 00:43:34 2017
From: nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de (Mattias Gaertner)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 00:43:34 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <13cb89b9-410f-d214-c08c-69a50a6823c1@kluug.net>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <CAFMUeB9jG7=mYdhCH_uvSY9NRh_J_+fK-Zt9ceiXMu9+SAPifA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913114023.225c2e8c@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <20170913115855.279e185d@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <CAFMUeB8Ej3txiDWaWcAhqgVQCtOpXtNwOYg7_J=-QKCJZZY9Ww@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170913153335.1e40b79b@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <79836097-4853-0f19-5fe0-ab40543ff4f1@kluug.net>
 <20170913211734.34009b99@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <13cb89b9-410f-d214-c08c-69a50a6823c1@kluug.net>
Message-ID: <20170914004334.2df9abf4@limapholos.matflo.wg>

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 21:57:50 +0200
Ondrej Pokorny via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

>[...]
> > uses unitdots.unit1, unitdots;
> > type
> >    TPrgBright = unitdots.tbright;
> >    TPrgColor = unitdots.unit1.tcolor; <--
> > ...
> 
> I don't get it :)
> from left to right: is unitdots a namespace? -> yes -> is unit1 a 
> subnamespace in unitdots? -> no -> is unit1 a file in unitdots 
> namespace? -> yes -> find tcolor type in unitdots.unit1. Why do you need 
> to read the identifier backwards?

Sadly, there are no subnamespaces in Delphi. For example:

uses unitdots.foo.bar, unitdots;
t:=unitdots.foo.bla; // foo.bla is defined in unitdots

According to your approach:
Is unitdots a namespace -> yes -> is foo "subnamespace" -> yes -> find
bla in "unitdots.foo" -> does not exist.

 
> + Yes, I have a bug in CodeTools:
> 
> program unitdots.main1;
> uses unitdots, unitdots.unit1;
> type
>    TPrgBright = unitdots.tbright;
>    TPrgColor = unitdots.unit1.tcolor;
>    TStrange = unitdots.main1.tprgcolor;
> var k1: longint;
> begin
>    if unitdots.main1=0 then ; // << compiler error (codetools jump to 
> "main1: integer;" in unitdots.pas)

I fixed that some hours ago. The source name is a special case.


>    if unitdots.main1.k1=0 then ; // << OK (codetools don't find k1)
>    if unitdots.j1=0 then ;
>    if unitdots.unit1.i1=0 then ;
> end.
> 
> unit unitdots;
> interface
> type
>    tbright = (yes, no);
> var
>    main1: integer;
>    unit1: integer;
>    j1: integer;
> implementation
> end.
> 
> unit unitdots.unit1;
> interface
> type
>    tcolor = integer;
> var
>    i1: tcolor;
> implementation
> end.
> 
> The namespace/unitname takes precedence before an identifier in an 
> external unit.

Yes.

> But it still looks to me like everything can be resolved 
> from left to right - you just need to know the rules. CodeTools don't 
> know this rule yet. But once they know it, they will resolve it correctly.

To be honest, I have to lookup the rules from time to time. I wonder
why Delphi did not come up with more intuitive rules.

Mattias

From tc at epidata.info  Thu Sep 14 11:58:57 2017
From: tc at epidata.info (Torsten Bonde Christiansen)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:58:57 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] fpCEF3 questions
Message-ID: <46a8a4d4-51d9-90c9-81f2-c0af5c9f2c27@epidata.info>

Hi List.

I am trying to work with the Chromium Embedded Framework from 
(https://github.com/dliw/fpCEF3) and (http://wiki.freepascal.org/fpCEF3) 
but parts of working with the framework is causing headaches... :)

1) I need to hook into the scrollbars such that i manually can position 
the view.
2) Parts of the focus handling seems to be either broken or my 
understanding of it is broken.
3) Using the TChromium component does not paint the view correctly when 
a main menu is used. There seems to be an offset problem.

Kind regards
Torsten.

From noreply at z505.com  Thu Sep 14 12:24:45 2017
From: noreply at z505.com (noreply at z505.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 05:24:45 -0500
Subject: [Lazarus] Why is there no announcement of Lazarus event
In-Reply-To: <972CF592-B105-436C-A90E-10F1A42122A6@dommelstein.nl>
References: <2c97cefb-06b3-0c1c-465b-da7d08aa92f1@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <972CF592-B105-436C-A90E-10F1A42122A6@dommelstein.nl>
Message-ID: <aacf16e2c15b920706072aa972f9ee25@z505.com>

On 2017-09-08 07:03, Marc Weustink via Lazarus wrote:
> Which event are you referring to?
> 
> Marc
> 

The resurrection, second, or third coming of the hero Lazarus?

Not fully familiar with the Bible character... but if Lazarus is here, I 
will need to see him.

>> 
>> Just wondering? Or is it still coming?
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>>   Graeme
>> 
>> --
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lazarus mailing list
>> Lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org
>> https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Lazarus mailing list
> Lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org
> https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus

From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Thu Sep 14 12:42:56 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:42:56 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] FPReport file names
In-Reply-To: <65efdd49-bbca-7b4c-9a16-559ffe960fa5@kluug.net>
References: <78f3c4ce-78c1-0660-3b8a-49806ea3425b@ya.ru>
 <6679741e-c692-4d17-fc57-cdbfc7f4d53c@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131014090.11060@home.telenet.be>
 <41c0991c-e46b-995f-ff15-05c810e3b9d0@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131200340.17078@home.telenet.be>
 <56310cd0-b32c-fdb7-6cfa-722e8b96fc4e@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131227410.17078@home.telenet.be>
 <b7d5eb20-d168-ced8-487e-605e90426c89@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709131950170.30703@home.telenet.be>
 <a1ab8707-82ab-2958-d311-02945747df8d@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <b98a7595-61bf-38c8-8f79-1fcc989ddbc0@kluug.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709132213370.6616@home.telenet.be>
 <65efdd49-bbca-7b4c-9a16-559ffe960fa5@kluug.net>
Message-ID: <218ea73a-bc70-61f3-2838-0ec5f91ce3b4@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-13 21:32, Ondrej Pokorny via Lazarus wrote:
> And I really hate abbreviations since I fail to
> remember them.:)

That is indeed a problem, especially with 600+ tables. eg: What does 
prefix "I" or "IO" or "IN" mean, when you have 30+ tables starting with 
the letter "I".

Personally I follow your approach kind of. The exception being that I 
use aliases for table names in big SQL queries, but I tend to use 4 
character alias, because 1 character has the same problem as described 
above (but in a slightly smaller scale).


> Everybody has their own taste - and it is good so. Otherwise we would
> all want to marry the same woman:)

Good one!!! :-D


Regards,
   Graeme


From dev.dliw at gmail.com  Thu Sep 14 13:10:10 2017
From: dev.dliw at gmail.com (dev.dliw at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 13:10:10 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] fpCEF3 questions
In-Reply-To: <46a8a4d4-51d9-90c9-81f2-c0af5c9f2c27@epidata.info>
References: <46a8a4d4-51d9-90c9-81f2-c0af5c9f2c27@epidata.info>
Message-ID: <11408999.VitxPhuprQ@desktop>

Hi Torsten,

>working with the framework is causing headaches
being the author of fpCEF, I can confirm that ;)


Is it correct, that you are using one of the latest versions of fpCEF on 
Linux?

> 1) I need to hook into the scrollbars such that i manually can position
> the view.
There is no API for that, but you can write JavaScript to do the job.
See the JavaScript example...


> 2) Parts of the focus handling seems to be either broken or my
> understanding of it is broken.
If you are on Linux, this is a known problem (for me; I need create an issue 
on Github).

I myself use fpCEF for showing html pages (no interaction), so I only realized 
it was broken, when doing the latest update.

The problem seems to be within CEF:
https://bitbucket.org/chromiumembedded/cef/issues/2026/multiple-major-keyboard-focus-issues-on

For GTK I think I found a way to work around the problem in fpCEF, but QT is 
totally broken.
I'm trying to improve the current situation, but it will take some time.


> 3) Using the TChromium component does not paint the view correctly when
> a main menu is used. There seems to be an offset problem.
Could you send a screenshot?

On Linux there are many ways to break TChromium. The reason is the way how CEF 
is embedded into LCL. Currently CEF always is embedded directly into the 
XWindow of the Form and positioned / resized via X events.
For simple use cases it usually works ok, but can break easily for more 
complex setups (like the tabbed browser).

I already tried to embed CEF into the XWindow of the parent control of 
TChromium, but then event handling breaks for CEF and the client LCL 
application, if the parent is not a form.

CEF at the moment also does not support Xembed, which IMO could solve many 
issues:
https://bitbucket.org/chromiumembedded/cef/issues/1417/linux-improve-cef-x11-window-behavior-in


The more robust solution on Linux ATM is the offscreen browser TChromiumOSR.


Btw. I would be very happy if anyone could tell me, how to reliably embed a 
XWindow into any LCL widgetset on Linux.


Kind regards,
dliw

From tc at epidata.info  Thu Sep 14 13:50:19 2017
From: tc at epidata.info (Torsten Bonde Christiansen)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 13:50:19 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] fpCEF3 questions
In-Reply-To: <11408999.VitxPhuprQ@desktop>
References: <46a8a4d4-51d9-90c9-81f2-c0af5c9f2c27@epidata.info>
 <11408999.VitxPhuprQ@desktop>
Message-ID: <7a4a147a-6286-bf11-2e9a-05a2e7c7971e@epidata.info>

On 2017-09-14 13:10, dev.dliw at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi Torsten,
>
>> working with the framework is causing headaches
> being the author of fpCEF, I can confirm that ;)
>
>
> Is it correct, that you are using one of the latest versions of fpCEF on
> Linux?
Absolutely correct. I'm using the currently available 3.3029 on Linux 
(64bit) GTK2

>> 1) I need to hook into the scrollbars such that i manually can position
>> the view.
> There is no API for that, but you can write JavaScript to do the job.
> See the JavaScript example...
Okay - thanks.

>> 2) Parts of the focus handling seems to be either broken or my
>> understanding of it is broken.
> If you are on Linux, this is a known problem (for me; I need create an issue
> on Github).
>
> I myself use fpCEF for showing html pages (no interaction), so I only realized
> it was broken, when doing the latest update.
>
> The problem seems to be within CEF:
> https://bitbucket.org/chromiumembedded/cef/issues/2026/multiple-major-keyboard-focus-issues-on
>
> For GTK I think I found a way to work around the problem in fpCEF, but QT is
> totally broken.
> I'm trying to improve the current situation, but it will take some time.
In my project i create an HTML output for a statistical analysis program 
and the code itself is very simple - tables and paragraph, and only very 
little CSS.

>> 3) Using the TChromium component does not paint the view correctly when
>> a main menu is used. There seems to be an offset problem.
> Could you send a screenshot?

Without Main menu:




With main menu:
  - notice the lacking tabs, this is more prominent if not using a 
pagecontrol, but
    any other wincontrol to host the browser.
> On Linux there are many ways to break TChromium. The reason is the way how CEF
> is embedded into LCL. Currently CEF always is embedded directly into the
> XWindow of the Form and positioned / resized via X events.
> For simple use cases it usually works ok, but can break easily for more
> complex setups (like the tabbed browser).
> I already tried to embed CEF into the XWindow of the parent control of
> TChromium, but then event handling breaks for CEF and the client LCL
> application, if the parent is not a form.
>
> CEF at the moment also does not support Xembed, which IMO could solve many
> issues:
> https://bitbucket.org/chromiumembedded/cef/issues/1417/linux-improve-cef-x11-window-behavior-in
>
>
> The more robust solution on Linux ATM is the offscreen browser TChromiumOSR.
In the OSR example the painting is tied to OpenGL IIRC, but can it be 
tied to something else? and how?


Another issue with all the versions of CEF i have tried so far is that I 
get a SIGSEGV when closing any application that uses fpCEF. I have tried 
many combinations when trying to shutdown, but it seems to boil down to 
calling "CefCloseLibrary" that causes the SIGSEGV.

Regards,
Torsten.
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From dev.dliw at gmail.com  Thu Sep 14 15:05:34 2017
From: dev.dliw at gmail.com (dev.dliw at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:05:34 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] fpCEF3 questions
In-Reply-To: <7a4a147a-6286-bf11-2e9a-05a2e7c7971e@epidata.info>
References: <46a8a4d4-51d9-90c9-81f2-c0af5c9f2c27@epidata.info>
 <11408999.VitxPhuprQ@desktop>
 <7a4a147a-6286-bf11-2e9a-05a2e7c7971e@epidata.info>
Message-ID: <9779836.fi69sH5IIX@desktop>

> With main menu:
>   - notice the lacking tabs, this is more prominent if not using a
> pagecontrol, but
>     any other wincontrol to host the browser.
I see.
The problem is, that the menu does not change the position of the controls on 
the form.
E.g. if you out a button with Top=0 on an empty form and then add a menu, Top 
stays at 0. So the offset of TChromium is wrong.

As a workaround you could change the position of the TChromium component (if 
on Linux).
As I said, fpCEF on Linux embeds CEF into the XWindow of the main form, which 
is more or less a borderless window manually positioned over the LCL form.


> In my project i create an HTML output for a statistical analysis program
> and the code itself is very simple - tables and paragraph, and only very
> little CSS.
It doesn't really matter what you show via TChromium, but how you use 
TChromium.
And the tabbed browser is probably the most complex case and unfortunately 
rather broken on Linux right now.

However, if you really only want to show very simple HTML, then
	https://github.com/BerndGabriel/HtmlViewer
may possibly be the better choice for you.

> In the OSR example the painting is tied to OpenGL IIRC, but can it be
> tied to something else? and how?
Actually not. CEF only provides an array of pixel values, it is up to you to 
do whatever you want.
Older versions of the OSRDemo used BGRABitmap:
https://github.com/dliw/fpCEF3/blob/5335a5ba437d469eb6f933e47ae0e0cd3d6e8968/Examples/OSRDemo/main.pas#L113


> Another issue with all the versions of CEF i have tried so far is that I
> get a SIGSEGV when closing any application that uses fpCEF. I have tried
> many combinations when trying to shutdown, but it seems to boil down to
> calling "CefCloseLibrary" that causes the SIGSEGV.
See the last part of my answer in this issue:
https://github.com/dliw/fpCEF3/issues/47#issuecomment-281333395

In the meantime I have a version which implements the correct CEF shutdown 
process. It works fine if there is only a single TChromium instance, but has 
side effects when used in the tabbed browser. Focus get lost for all other 
instances and there is no way to get it back, browser content turns black, 
etc.
-> headaches...


So no good nows - sorry. It very much depends on CEF to improve the usage on 
Linux.

Regards,
dliw

From tc at epidata.info  Thu Sep 14 15:30:38 2017
From: tc at epidata.info (Torsten Bonde Christiansen)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:30:38 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] fpCEF3 questions
In-Reply-To: <9779836.fi69sH5IIX@desktop>
References: <46a8a4d4-51d9-90c9-81f2-c0af5c9f2c27@epidata.info>
 <11408999.VitxPhuprQ@desktop>
 <7a4a147a-6286-bf11-2e9a-05a2e7c7971e@epidata.info>
 <9779836.fi69sH5IIX@desktop>
Message-ID: <7426e61f-f41b-c699-6d02-bb65582dd0d7@epidata.info>

On 2017-09-14 15:05, dev.dliw--- via Lazarus wrote:
>> With main menu:
>>    - notice the lacking tabs, this is more prominent if not using a
>> pagecontrol, but
>>      any other wincontrol to host the browser.
> I see.
> The problem is, that the menu does not change the position of the controls on
> the form.
> E.g. if you out a button with Top=0 on an empty form and then add a menu, Top
> stays at 0. So the offset of TChromium is wrong.
>
> As a workaround you could change the position of the TChromium component (if
> on Linux).
> As I said, fpCEF on Linux embeds CEF into the XWindow of the main form, which
> is more or less a borderless window manually positioned over the LCL form.
I tried with applying the height of the TMenu, but the GTK 
implementation seems to have a generic
value witch not truely corresponds to active DE and the style/font used...

I guess I will have to live with it the way it is for now.

>
>
>> In my project i create an HTML output for a statistical analysis program
>> and the code itself is very simple - tables and paragraph, and only very
>> little CSS.
> It doesn't really matter what you show via TChromium, but how you use
> TChromium.
> And the tabbed browser is probably the most complex case and unfortunately
> rather broken on Linux right now.
>
> However, if you really only want to show very simple HTML, then
> 	https://github.com/BerndGabriel/HtmlViewer
> may possibly be the better choice for you.
The whole reason for using CEF was because the THhtmlViewer component is 
too slow! Especially in my case since I often work with
many and large tables (100 / 1000+ rows) which causes significal 
slowdows in that component.

>
>> In the OSR example the painting is tied to OpenGL IIRC, but can it be
>> tied to something else? and how?
> Actually not. CEF only provides an array of pixel values, it is up to you to
> do whatever you want.
> Older versions of the OSRDemo used BGRABitmap:
> https://github.com/dliw/fpCEF3/blob/5335a5ba437d469eb6f933e47ae0e0cd3d6e8968/Examples/OSRDemo/main.pas#L113

I will check that link out later and see if I can make the switch.

>
>
>> Another issue with all the versions of CEF i have tried so far is that I
>> get a SIGSEGV when closing any application that uses fpCEF. I have tried
>> many combinations when trying to shutdown, but it seems to boil down to
>> calling "CefCloseLibrary" that causes the SIGSEGV.
> See the last part of my answer in this issue:
> https://github.com/dliw/fpCEF3/issues/47#issuecomment-281333395
I have already made sure to sync both the fpCEF and the CEF-minimal i 
can download, but i still get the problem.

For now i can make the call in a try .. except block and catch the error 
when closing down. That way the problem is only
visible during debugging. :)



>
> In the meantime I have a version which implements the correct CEF shutdown
> process. It works fine if there is only a single TChromium instance, but has
> side effects when used in the tabbed browser. Focus get lost for all other
> instances and there is no way to get it back, browser content turns black,
> etc.
> -> headaches...
>
>
> So no good nows - sorry. It very much depends on CEF to improve the usage on
> Linux.
If my testing can help you in anyway just say so. I'm no hardcore GTK 
coder, but i have a little experience so
I will try to see if I can assist you whenever possible.


Kind regards
Torsten.

From dev.dliw at gmail.com  Thu Sep 14 15:48:44 2017
From: dev.dliw at gmail.com (dev.dliw at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:48:44 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] fpCEF3 questions
In-Reply-To: <7426e61f-f41b-c699-6d02-bb65582dd0d7@epidata.info>
References: <46a8a4d4-51d9-90c9-81f2-c0af5c9f2c27@epidata.info>
 <9779836.fi69sH5IIX@desktop>
 <7426e61f-f41b-c699-6d02-bb65582dd0d7@epidata.info>
Message-ID: <11073644.9tZiUgZEGl@desktop>

> The whole reason for using CEF was because the THhtmlViewer component is
> too slow!
Well ok, bad advice then...

> I will check that link out later and see if I can make the switch.
Please note:
When using OSR chromium one needs to handle all events and pass them to CEF 
"manually". OSRDemo at the moment only handles mouse events, so keyboard input 
does *not* work and needs to be implemented.


> I have already made sure to sync both the fpCEF and the CEF-minimal i
> can download, but i still get the problem.
Sorry, I meant I have a version *locally*, but it creates more problems right 
now, than it solves.
try .. except is the only "solution" now.


>I will try to see if I can assist you whenever possible.
Thanks for the offer. However, most of the problem really is on the CEF side 
and there is not much I can do to work around it.

Even the official cefclient application has similar problems on Linux.
https://bitbucket.org/chromiumembedded/cef/src/c95b92f1e8702ad4a74c4251d5d698f417a21717/tests/cefclient/?at=master

Kind regards,
dliw


From jesusrmx at gmail.com  Thu Sep 14 17:15:40 2017
From: jesusrmx at gmail.com (Jesus R.)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:15:40 -0500
Subject: [Lazarus] LazReport - Issues 26971 and 30466
In-Reply-To: <8068ca6b-eb58-6df4-f13c-86e31709f3ef@bgss.hu>
References: <8068ca6b-eb58-6df4-f13c-86e31709f3ef@bgss.hu>
Message-ID: <CAPcApo4Rcux8CGb5Uc3OX1vkOD3C0cOovD+ZXHC=V2NfjkGB-Q@mail.gmail.com>

2017-09-13 3:51 GMT-05:00 Gabor Boros via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>:

> https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=30466
>
> The KeepChild feature is very important from my POV. Please review the
> patch. (I have not tried yet.)

It looks ok to me, I will commit it soon.

Jesus Reyes A.

From mlnglsts at bgss.hu  Sun Sep 17 11:50:52 2017
From: mlnglsts at bgss.hu (Gabor Boros)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 11:50:52 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] LazReport - Where the width of the designer page come
	from?
Message-ID: <3775ee8c-2c2e-e0c0-58e9-bdaa27898ee1@bgss.hu>

Hi All,

LazReport's designer page with in pixels is strange for me.

LazReport - 752
FreeReport - 750
FastReport - 790
FPReport - 794

Width of A4 is 210mm. 210/25.4*96=793.7. Where the 752 come from?

Gabor

From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Mon Sep 18 00:05:18 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 23:05:18 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] LazReport - Where the width of the designer page come
 from?
In-Reply-To: <3775ee8c-2c2e-e0c0-58e9-bdaa27898ee1@bgss.hu>
References: <3775ee8c-2c2e-e0c0-58e9-bdaa27898ee1@bgss.hu>
Message-ID: <438ded43-e7e0-24c0-f84b-738e01b67386@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-17 10:50, Gabor Boros via Lazarus wrote:
> Width of A4 is 210mm. 210/25.4*96=793.7.

Yeah, fpReport is the only one with a sane value. :)

Regards,
   Graeme

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

From jesusrmx at gmail.com  Mon Sep 18 17:48:38 2017
From: jesusrmx at gmail.com (Jesus R.)
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 10:48:38 -0500
Subject: [Lazarus] LazReport - Where the width of the designer page come
	from?
In-Reply-To: <438ded43-e7e0-24c0-f84b-738e01b67386@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <3775ee8c-2c2e-e0c0-58e9-bdaa27898ee1@bgss.hu>
 <438ded43-e7e0-24c0-f84b-738e01b67386@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPcApo6VOktofgYTRYtYwBjAf+pCuVfJ1Rmzra5=M24f4=L3aw@mail.gmail.com>

LazReport does not use the standard or known paper size, it uses the
printer reported values.

For calculating the paper width it doesn't convert from mm, instead it
uses the physical width of paper in dots at printer resolution
then for the screen dimensions it scales down the value to a fixed
resolution of 93 ppi and some account for aspect ratio which
gives approximately 91 ppi, in other words LazReport scales the paper
width to a fixed ppi, not to current screen ppi.

The calculations are as follow (for my selected printer of resolution
of 600 dpi).

Paper width=4958 dots

screen paper width =  4958/600*93/1.022=751.94 ~ 752

FreeReport should report the same and I cannot explain the differences
other than probably it doesn't use the reported printer
values but some standard ones. I don't know how the original creator
of freereport came out to a value for aspect ratio of 1.022
in the X direction, I would be glad to know for sure though.



2017-09-17 17:05 GMT-05:00 Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>:
> On 2017-09-17 10:50, Gabor Boros via Lazarus wrote:
>>
>> Width of A4 is 210mm. 210/25.4*96=793.7.
>
>
> Yeah, fpReport is the only one with a sane value. :)
>
> Regards,
>   Graeme
>
> --
> fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
> http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/
>
> My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Lazarus mailing list
> Lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org
> https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus

From md at delfire.net  Wed Sep 20 17:34:40 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 12:34:40 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Why Laz2_DOM, laz2_XMLRead, and laz2_XMLWrite?
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeYY1jn7so+q+VaG-aHURo9MEFKPZ334i1=1KtJWZYEZ_g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Nowadays we have Unicode and so on.

Is there any reason to these units (Laz2_DOM, laz2_XMLRead, and
laz2_XMLWrite) still exists?

I've always used them, but days ago I needed to use XPath and the
xpath unit works using objects from DOM unit, not laz2_DOM, and
because that my doubt.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From michael at freepascal.org  Wed Sep 20 17:36:14 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 17:36:14 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] Why Laz2_DOM, laz2_XMLRead, and laz2_XMLWrite?
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeYY1jn7so+q+VaG-aHURo9MEFKPZ334i1=1KtJWZYEZ_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeYY1jn7so+q+VaG-aHURo9MEFKPZ334i1=1KtJWZYEZ_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709201734480.21512@home.telenet.be>



On Wed, 20 Sep 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Nowadays we have Unicode and so on.
>
> Is there any reason to these units (Laz2_DOM, laz2_XMLRead, and
> laz2_XMLWrite) still exists?
>
> I've always used them, but days ago I needed to use XPath and the
> xpath unit works using objects from DOM unit, not laz2_DOM, and
> because that my doubt.

These units work using UTF8. The DOM units use UnicodeString (UTF16).

Given that these units are quite stable in terms of functionality and
maturity, it may be a good idea to move them to the FCL.

Michael.

From md at delfire.net  Wed Sep 20 19:56:04 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 14:56:04 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Why Laz2_DOM, laz2_XMLRead, and laz2_XMLWrite?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709201734480.21512@home.telenet.be>
References: <CA+ixmeYY1jn7so+q+VaG-aHURo9MEFKPZ334i1=1KtJWZYEZ_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709201734480.21512@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeYD+MJHFFUObLdm02_ks8L6Z9E=bODnaygngs3Orvoncw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>
> These units work using UTF8. The DOM units use UnicodeString (UTF16).
>
> Given that these units are quite stable in terms of functionality and
> maturity, it may be a good idea to move them to the FCL.

Yes, that is my point.
But instead of just moving them, shouldn't they merge as well into a
single unit, ie, only one DOM, XMLRead, and XMLWrite unit?

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From michael at freepascal.org  Wed Sep 20 20:02:23 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 20:02:23 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] Why Laz2_DOM, laz2_XMLRead, and laz2_XMLWrite?
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeYD+MJHFFUObLdm02_ks8L6Z9E=bODnaygngs3Orvoncw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeYY1jn7so+q+VaG-aHURo9MEFKPZ334i1=1KtJWZYEZ_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709201734480.21512@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeYD+MJHFFUObLdm02_ks8L6Z9E=bODnaygngs3Orvoncw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202000460.26241@home.telenet.be>



On Wed, 20 Sep 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
> <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>>
>> These units work using UTF8. The DOM units use UnicodeString (UTF16).
>>
>> Given that these units are quite stable in terms of functionality and
>> maturity, it may be a good idea to move them to the FCL.
>
> Yes, that is my point.
> But instead of just moving them, shouldn't they merge as well into a
> single unit, ie, only one DOM, XMLRead, and XMLWrite unit?

I don't think so, because how will you make the difference between the 2 ?
And it's not possible to have optimal code for both cases in 1 set of
classes; The idea is that there are no conversions necessary.

Michael.

From md at delfire.net  Wed Sep 20 20:09:43 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 15:09:43 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Error loading a package with different versions
Message-ID: <CA+ixmea5d4_Gno9j5nrPYTermNUWBZ=h0aCnsnZHRvOv=eihQA@mail.gmail.com>

I have a package with different versions like this:

/mypack
  /1.0/src...
  /2.0/src...

Then I have 2 project, each one using a different version.
The same environment like this:
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_Packages#Example_library_with_multiple_lpk

My problem is:
Every time that I switch between these projects, I get an error from the IDE:
"The following packages failed to load:"

I'm using the menu: `Project->Open Recent Project`

BUT, if I try again, ie, I click at the same menu item, choosing the
same project that is already opened, the IDE refresh the package and
load the right version.

I believe something is wrong when the IDE try to close the loaded
package for the first time, before open the right version.

I'm using trunk, but an old revision:
Lazarus 1.9.0 r54784 FPC 3.0.1 i386-win32-win32/win64



Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From md at delfire.net  Wed Sep 20 20:15:13 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 15:15:13 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Why Laz2_DOM, laz2_XMLRead, and laz2_XMLWrite?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202000460.26241@home.telenet.be>
References: <CA+ixmeYY1jn7so+q+VaG-aHURo9MEFKPZ334i1=1KtJWZYEZ_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709201734480.21512@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeYD+MJHFFUObLdm02_ks8L6Z9E=bODnaygngs3Orvoncw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202000460.26241@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmea=iKVFtOi8fQr88kYrDEc3gjdstTeEqBHJkjhJOGGoGQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
>> <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> These units work using UTF8. The DOM units use UnicodeString (UTF16).
>>>
>>> Given that these units are quite stable in terms of functionality and
>>> maturity, it may be a good idea to move them to the FCL.
>>
>>
>> Yes, that is my point.
>> But instead of just moving them, shouldn't they merge as well into a
>> single unit, ie, only one DOM, XMLRead, and XMLWrite unit?
>
>
> I don't think so, because how will you make the difference between the 2 ?
> And it's not possible to have optimal code for both cases in 1 set of
> classes; The idea is that there are no conversions necessary.

And we will continue having two base code to do the same thing?
Don't you think this is confusing for the users?

What about having just one code but setting the type of string
(XMLString) to use? (even having Unicode... God)

How can I use XPath with laz2_* units then?


Regards,
Marcos Douglas

From michael at freepascal.org  Wed Sep 20 20:38:23 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 20:38:23 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] Why Laz2_DOM, laz2_XMLRead, and laz2_XMLWrite?
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmea=iKVFtOi8fQr88kYrDEc3gjdstTeEqBHJkjhJOGGoGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeYY1jn7so+q+VaG-aHURo9MEFKPZ334i1=1KtJWZYEZ_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709201734480.21512@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeYD+MJHFFUObLdm02_ks8L6Z9E=bODnaygngs3Orvoncw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202000460.26241@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea=iKVFtOi8fQr88kYrDEc3gjdstTeEqBHJkjhJOGGoGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202034360.29133@home.telenet.be>



On Wed, 20 Sep 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
> <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 20 Sep 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
>>> <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> These units work using UTF8. The DOM units use UnicodeString (UTF16).
>>>>
>>>> Given that these units are quite stable in terms of functionality and
>>>> maturity, it may be a good idea to move them to the FCL.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, that is my point.
>>> But instead of just moving them, shouldn't they merge as well into a
>>> single unit, ie, only one DOM, XMLRead, and XMLWrite unit?
>>
>>
>> I don't think so, because how will you make the difference between the 2 ?
>> And it's not possible to have optimal code for both cases in 1 set of
>> classes; The idea is that there are no conversions necessary.
>
> And we will continue having two base code to do the same thing?
> Don't you think this is confusing for the users?
>
> What about having just one code but setting the type of string
> (XMLString) to use? (even having Unicode... God)

This is an option, but you'll still have 2 sets of units.

>
> How can I use XPath with laz2_* units then?

Currently not, I think. 
All the more reason to move everything to FCL in a unified codebase.

Or use your suggestion and use something like

Type
{$IFDEF XMLUTF8}
  XMLString = UTF8String;
{$ELSE}
  XMLString = unicodestring;
{$ENDIF}

should do the job. I will have a look at this; the only thing that must
then be properly checked is the actual reading and writing...

Michael.

From md at delfire.net  Wed Sep 20 21:05:21 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 16:05:21 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] =?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm working in my new "pet project" called Xavier.
Xavier is an object-oriented library for work with XML.

The motives and announcement is on the forum:
http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,38343.0.html

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de  Wed Sep 20 21:19:49 2017
From: nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de (Mattias Gaertner)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 21:19:49 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Why Laz2_DOM, laz2_XMLRead, and laz2_XMLWrite?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202034360.29133@home.telenet.be>
References: <CA+ixmeYY1jn7so+q+VaG-aHURo9MEFKPZ334i1=1KtJWZYEZ_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709201734480.21512@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeYD+MJHFFUObLdm02_ks8L6Z9E=bODnaygngs3Orvoncw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202000460.26241@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea=iKVFtOi8fQr88kYrDEc3gjdstTeEqBHJkjhJOGGoGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202034360.29133@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <20170920211949.4dd7319b@limapholos.matflo.wg>

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 20:38:23 +0200 (CEST)
Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

>[...]
> Currently not, I think. 
> All the more reason to move everything to FCL in a unified codebase.

+1
 
> Or use your suggestion and use something like
> 
> Type
> {$IFDEF XMLUTF8}
>   XMLString = UTF8String;
> {$ELSE}
>   XMLString = unicodestring;
> {$ENDIF}
> 
> should do the job. I will have a look at this; the only thing that must
> then be properly checked is the actual reading and writing...

The laz2_dom has some options for keeping the spaces
(indentation). Don't know if this was already backported to the
original xmlreader/writer.

Mattias

From michael at freepascal.org  Wed Sep 20 21:31:15 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 21:31:15 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>



On Wed, 20 Sep 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm working in my new "pet project" called Xavier.
> Xavier is an object-oriented library for work with XML.

I don't understand the 'why' ? 
Should I understand that you consider the DOM units not object-oriented ?


Michael.

From nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de  Wed Sep 20 21:53:03 2017
From: nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de (Mattias Gaertner)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 21:53:03 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Error loading a package with different versions
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmea5d4_Gno9j5nrPYTermNUWBZ=h0aCnsnZHRvOv=eihQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmea5d4_Gno9j5nrPYTermNUWBZ=h0aCnsnZHRvOv=eihQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170920215303.2d94342a@limapholos.matflo.wg>

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 15:09:43 -0300
"Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus" <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>
wrote:

>[...]
> I'm using trunk, but an old revision:
> Lazarus 1.9.0 r54784 FPC 3.0.1 i386-win32-win32/win64

Please create a bug report.

Mattias

From md at delfire.net  Wed Sep 20 22:09:08 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 17:09:08 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm working in my new "pet project" called Xavier.
>> Xavier is an object-oriented library for work with XML.
>
>
> I don't understand the 'why' ? Should I understand that you consider the DOM
> units not object-oriented ?

Yes and no.

Michael, with all my respect, that depends of your view about Object thinking.
Yes, DOM uses classes and objects, but IMO Objects is more than that.
Objects are more close to Functional programming than most people think.
If can code classes but if you are implementing (all) in an imperative
way, I mean line by line telling the computer how to do something
instead of code what you just want, you may not are thinking in terms
of Objects. Your class, in these cases, is just a "bucket of data and
procedures".

In a perfect design, we may only connect all objects to work in a
"task", call "run", and "they" will know what to do.
They (Objects) will decide how to do. Not the programmer (the
"controller"). Just objects sending messages for each other.

Yeah, looks so philosophical... :)

I've been writing a blog about this for two years
http://objectpascalprogramming.com/

...and I use these same concepts in production code, of course.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From md at delfire.net  Wed Sep 20 22:24:08 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 17:24:08 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Error loading a package with different versions
In-Reply-To: <20170920215303.2d94342a@limapholos.matflo.wg>
References: <CA+ixmea5d4_Gno9j5nrPYTermNUWBZ=h0aCnsnZHRvOv=eihQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170920215303.2d94342a@limapholos.matflo.wg>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeYSSEfGpq+J=PaLTwzJ40NDs6yw-Na9WzhXV2G1VpcTow@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 15:09:43 -0300
> "Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus" <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>
> wrote:
>
>>[...]
>> I'm using trunk, but an old revision:
>> Lazarus 1.9.0 r54784 FPC 3.0.1 i386-win32-win32/win64
>
> Please create a bug report.

Done
https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=32450


Marcos Douglas

From michael at freepascal.org  Thu Sep 21 00:33:41 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 00:33:41 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709210025300.4909@home.telenet.be>



On Wed, 20 Sep 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
> <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 20 Sep 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm working in my new "pet project" called Xavier.
>>> Xavier is an object-oriented library for work with XML.
>>
>>
>> I don't understand the 'why' ? Should I understand that you consider the DOM
>> units not object-oriented ?
>
> Yes and no.
>
> Michael, with all my respect, that depends of your view about Object thinking.
> Yes, DOM uses classes and objects, but IMO Objects is more than that.
> Objects are more close to Functional programming than most people think.

As I understand it, objects are exactly the opposite of functional programming,
in that they encapsulate state, and functional programming wants to avoid
state (variables, if you want).

> If can code classes but if you are implementing (all) in an imperative
> way, I mean line by line telling the computer how to do something
> instead of code what you just want, you may not are thinking in terms
> of Objects. Your class, in these cases, is just a "bucket of data and
> procedures".

Yes. That's what an object is.

>
> In a perfect design, we may only connect all objects to work in a
> "task", call "run", and "they" will know what to do.

Ah. You just replace methods by objects.

You should be programming Java:
https://steve-yegge.blogspot.be/2006/03/execution-in-kingdom-of-nouns.html

I prefer imperative programming. (verbs, if you want). 
It comes more natural.

Well, each his own style. But, if you allow me: the post on the lazarus
forum and the Xavier page should really explain what you mean by OOP. I
guess most people will be confused, as I am.

Thanks for explaining.

Michael.

From md at delfire.net  Thu Sep 21 05:06:52 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 00:06:52 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709210025300.4909@home.telenet.be>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709210025300.4909@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeYLa=EYWuzQwZRKPg+5DwK-Qj_mcCA3gEhJ2N6cF_Q0VA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 7:33 PM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> You should be programming Java:
> https://steve-yegge.blogspot.be/2006/03/execution-in-kingdom-of-nouns.html

Nah... most of them know nothing about true OOP.
They believe that an object is a "record" with getters and setters... anyway.

> I prefer imperative programming. (verbs, if you want). It comes more
> natural.
>
> Well, each his own style. But, if you allow me: the post on the lazarus
> forum and the Xavier page should really explain what you mean by OOP. I
> guess most people will be confused, as I am.

As you said, each his own style. What is more important is keeping
this excellent community united, around that great language called
Object Pascal.
And indeed is a good tip. I'll improve the README. Thank you.

>
> Thanks for explaining.

You're welcome.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From leledumbo_cool at yahoo.co.id  Thu Sep 21 07:57:34 2017
From: leledumbo_cool at yahoo.co.id (leledumbo)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 22:57:34 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Lazarus]
 =?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
 =?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1505973454924-0.post@n3.nabble.com>

Free Pascal - Lazarus mailing list wrote
> Hi,
> 
> I'm working in my new "pet project" called Xavier.
> Xavier is an object-oriented library for work with XML.
> 
> The motives and announcement is on the forum:
> http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,38343.0.html

Apart from not needing to free memory and simpler nodes retrieval, I can't
really see any difference with DOM. I was expecting some kind of DSL to work
with XML in a declarative way, but unfortunately it still looks imperative. 



--
Sent from: http://free-pascal-lazarus.989080.n3.nabble.com/

From r030t1 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 21 08:05:29 2017
From: r030t1 at gmail.com (R0b0t1)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 01:05:29 -0500
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709210025300.4909@home.telenet.be>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709210025300.4909@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <CAAD4mYgBryEoCuRxX7Ro9PtZffyLaYCqe-sF67F1EWiZ290b9g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
>> <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 20 Sep 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I'm working in my new "pet project" called Xavier.
>>>> Xavier is an object-oriented library for work with XML.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't understand the 'why' ? Should I understand that you consider the
>>> DOM
>>> units not object-oriented ?
>>
>>
>> Yes and no.
>>
>> Michael, with all my respect, that depends of your view about Object
>> thinking.
>> Yes, DOM uses classes and objects, but IMO Objects is more than that.
>> Objects are more close to Functional programming than most people think.
>
>
> As I understand it, objects are exactly the opposite of functional
> programming,
> in that they encapsulate state, and functional programming wants to avoid
> state (variables, if you want).
>

You can think of an object's data as a monad's data, and the methods
in the objects in a hierarchy as the various monadic functions which
operate on that data.

In a typical functional language the monadic functions and their
arguments do not have any hierarchical relation.

>> If can code classes but if you are implementing (all) in an imperative
>> way, I mean line by line telling the computer how to do something
>> instead of code what you just want, you may not are thinking in terms
>> of Objects. Your class, in these cases, is just a "bucket of data and
>> procedures".
>
>
> Yes. That's what an object is.
>
>>
>> In a perfect design, we may only connect all objects to work in a
>> "task", call "run", and "they" will know what to do.
>
>
> Ah. You just replace methods by objects.
>
> You should be programming Java:
> https://steve-yegge.blogspot.be/2006/03/execution-in-kingdom-of-nouns.html
>
> I prefer imperative programming. (verbs, if you want). It comes more
> natural.
>
> Well, each his own style. But, if you allow me: the post on the lazarus
> forum and the Xavier page should really explain what you mean by OOP. I
> guess most people will be confused, as I am.
>
> Thanks for explaining.
>
> Michael.
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Lazarus mailing list
> Lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org
> https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus

From mschnell at lumino.de  Thu Sep 21 10:00:33 2017
From: mschnell at lumino.de (Michael Schnell)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 10:00:33 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus]
 =?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
 =?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f2433ca3-7196-6f22-c07f-2ef382f7483a@lumino.de>

On 20.09.2017 22:09, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
> In a perfect design, we may only connect all objects to work in a 
> "task", call "run", and "they" will know what to do. They (Objects) 
> will decide how to do. Not the programmer (the "controller"). Just 
> objects sending messages for each other. 
Is that what the (language construct) "Interface" is supposed to provide ?

-Michael


From sysrpl at gmail.com  Thu Sep 21 12:32:14 2017
From: sysrpl at gmail.com (Anthony Walter)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 06:32:14 -0400
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <f2433ca3-7196-6f22-c07f-2ef382f7483a@lumino.de>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <f2433ca3-7196-6f22-c07f-2ef382f7483a@lumino.de>
Message-ID: <CAHmPLWWX_uqF6ZqaTKg5g+YgysrMLLQOy1K+djTBR4WdiNoeJA@mail.gmail.com>

Marcos,

What and where are James.Data, James.Data.Clss?

Have you seen my XML interface at this url?

https://github.com/sysrpl/Cross.Codebot/blob/master/source/codebot.text.xml.pas

It might be helpful to study and/or consider. Example:

var
  D: IDocument;
  N: INode;
  F: IFiler;
begin
  D := CreateDocument;
  N := D.Force('config/settings');
  F := N.Filer;
  F.WriteStr('name', 'Marcos')
  F.WriteInt('@luckyNumber', 7);
  WriteLn(D.Text);
  D.Beautify;
  WriteLn(D.Text);
end;

Output:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><config><settings
luckyNumber="7"><name>Marcos</name></settings></config>

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<config>
  <settings luckyNumber="7">
    <name>Marcos</name>
  </settings>
</config>
-------------- next part --------------
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From md at delfire.net  Thu Sep 21 18:38:31 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 13:38:31 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <1505973454924-0.post@n3.nabble.com>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1505973454924-0.post@n3.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeZThkrG8Zi5gJB8du+bWkOAeCHgzoWgY-9r_EeXAp=AEQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 2:57 AM, leledumbo via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> Free Pascal - Lazarus mailing list wrote
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm working in my new "pet project" called Xavier.
>> Xavier is an object-oriented library for work with XML.
>>
>> The motives and announcement is on the forum:
>> http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,38343.0.html
>
> Apart from not needing to free memory and simpler nodes retrieval, I can't
> really see any difference with DOM. I was expecting some kind of DSL to work
> with XML in a declarative way, but unfortunately it still looks imperative.

I've just started this project and we don't have the 1.0 version yet.
Any ideas could be considered at this point.

Regards,
Marcos Douglas

From md at delfire.net  Thu Sep 21 18:49:57 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 13:49:57 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <f2433ca3-7196-6f22-c07f-2ef382f7483a@lumino.de>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <f2433ca3-7196-6f22-c07f-2ef382f7483a@lumino.de>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmebpVTH15s-FOPU3dGLT2Yf=mddJVoHpu-FokwWuqF0tkA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 5:00 AM, Michael Schnell via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> On 20.09.2017 22:09, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>>
>> In a perfect design, we may only connect all objects to work in a "task",
>> call "run", and "they" will know what to do. They (Objects) will decide how
>> to do. Not the programmer (the "controller"). Just objects sending messages
>> for each other.
>
> Is that what the (language construct) "Interface" is supposed to provide ?

No. But Interfaces are very important. There is not true OOP without
"contracts" — that is what Interfaces are.
You can use inheritance to provide polimorphism, but inheritance could
be evil and should be avoided[1] as much you can. Instead, use
composion.
Others languages are using "duck typing", but I believe Interfaces are better.

Regards,
Marcos Douglas

[1] My posts about inheritance https://goo.gl/nzM4Ss

From md at delfire.net  Thu Sep 21 20:24:14 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:24:14 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <CAHmPLWWX_uqF6ZqaTKg5g+YgysrMLLQOy1K+djTBR4WdiNoeJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <f2433ca3-7196-6f22-c07f-2ef382f7483a@lumino.de>
 <CAHmPLWWX_uqF6ZqaTKg5g+YgysrMLLQOy1K+djTBR4WdiNoeJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmebUQRV8eURWrd8sOzLEJi9OH6bOr2TQrmRGoJzomEqk4g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Anthony Walter via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> Marcos,
>
> What and where are James.Data, James.Data.Clss?

Hi Anthony,

Jame is another project of mine: https://github.com/mdbs99/james
I've changed Xavier README a little bit including James as a
dependency and some principles.
Sorry about this misudestandy.

> Have you seen my XML interface at this url?
>
> https://github.com/sysrpl/Cross.Codebot/blob/master/source/codebot.text.xml.pas
>
> It might be helpful to study and/or consider. Example:
>
> [...snip...]

I know Codebot and Bare.Game for a long time.
Maybe I already told you, but you're a great developer. You code
things from the scratch and, even that, the design of your classes is
clean and beautiful. I mean, you do not code like a "hacker", but as
an architect. Your work have inspired me many times. Thank you.

Unfortunately, I didn't remember about this part when I thought to
code Xavier — but it was only a few hours coding with 2 beers.
However, I have some principles or own style that prevents me to use
Codebot. For example: I don't use functions anymore, only objects
(tip: think about put your functions inside classes, see New() methods
in Xavier); classes should be short as possible with 5 or less
methods, most; no nil/NULL as a valid return; other things.
But of course I will study (again) Codebot! For example, I will see
how did you code XPath, because I need to know how to do this on
Windows too. I can get many ideas from Codebot. Thanks again.

What license did you use in Codebot? You might put a LICENSE file there...

Another thing: You might divide Codebot in some specific libraries.
I thought coding everything that I want in James, but I realized that
is simpler to new users give just a piece that they want now, not a
big library — even with dependencies.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From tc at epidata.info  Fri Sep 22 08:10:58 2017
From: tc at epidata.info (Torsten Bonde Christiansen)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 08:10:58 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Why Laz2_DOM, laz2_XMLRead, and laz2_XMLWrite?
In-Reply-To: <20170920211949.4dd7319b@limapholos.matflo.wg>
References: <CA+ixmeYY1jn7so+q+VaG-aHURo9MEFKPZ334i1=1KtJWZYEZ_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709201734480.21512@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeYD+MJHFFUObLdm02_ks8L6Z9E=bODnaygngs3Orvoncw@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202000460.26241@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea=iKVFtOi8fQr88kYrDEc3gjdstTeEqBHJkjhJOGGoGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202034360.29133@home.telenet.be>
 <20170920211949.4dd7319b@limapholos.matflo.wg>
Message-ID: <b1607a08-2b47-4e28-ce6c-2a6bad4b6e35@epidata.info>

On 2017-09-20 21:19, Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 20:38:23 +0200 (CEST)
> Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> Currently not, I think.
>> All the more reason to move everything to FCL in a unified codebase.
> +1
>   
>> Or use your suggestion and use something like
>>
>> Type
>> {$IFDEF XMLUTF8}
>>    XMLString = UTF8String;
>> {$ELSE}
>>    XMLString = unicodestring;
>> {$ENDIF}
>>
>> should do the job. I will have a look at this; the only thing that must
>> then be properly checked is the actual reading and writing...
> The laz2_dom has some options for keeping the spaces
> (indentation). Don't know if this was already backported to the
> original xmlreader/writer.
>
> Mattias

Please, please consider the fact that the FCL counterpart require (or at 
least used to) a widestring manager! This was not the case with 
Laz2_DOM, etc... and hence the sole reason why we a using these units 
and not the FCL ones!

Just my 2 cents....


Kind regards,
Torsten.

From tc at epidata.info  Fri Sep 22 09:42:26 2017
From: tc at epidata.info (Torsten Bonde Christiansen)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 09:42:26 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] TabControl stopped working from rev. 55890
Message-ID: <07607e1a-a374-9fb3-5b98-087f4e9f71ed@epidata.info>

Hi List.

Due to a change in wincontrol.inc regarding TabStop the TabControl has 
stopped working completely. It causes an A/V during create.

Simple test: Start a new application, try placing a Tab Control (not 
Page Control - that one works) on the form => crash.

Regards,
Torsten.



From m-w-vogel at gmx.de  Fri Sep 22 09:46:01 2017
From: m-w-vogel at gmx.de (Michael W. Vogel)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 09:46:01 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] TabControl stopped working from rev. 55890
In-Reply-To: <07607e1a-a374-9fb3-5b98-087f4e9f71ed@epidata.info>
References: <07607e1a-a374-9fb3-5b98-087f4e9f71ed@epidata.info>
Message-ID: <ca8aa36b-b58d-9534-e29b-14251e2f0ea2@gmx.de>

Am 22.09.2017 um 09:42 schrieb Torsten Bonde Christiansen via Lazarus:
> Due to a change in wincontrol.inc regarding TabStop the TabControl has 
> stopped working completely. It causes an A/V during create.

Yes, I'll fix it. There is a old workaround, I'll see, if it is needed 
further. https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=32455

Michl

From m-w-vogel at gmx.de  Fri Sep 22 11:37:53 2017
From: m-w-vogel at gmx.de (Michael W. Vogel)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 11:37:53 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] TabControl stopped working from rev. 55890
In-Reply-To: <ca8aa36b-b58d-9534-e29b-14251e2f0ea2@gmx.de>
References: <07607e1a-a374-9fb3-5b98-087f4e9f71ed@epidata.info>
 <ca8aa36b-b58d-9534-e29b-14251e2f0ea2@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <1588cf3b-02ad-6947-cc8d-cc5e9cec951f@gmx.de>

Am 22.09.2017 um 09:46 schrieb Michael W. Vogel via Lazarus:
> Am 22.09.2017 um 09:42 schrieb Torsten Bonde Christiansen via Lazarus:
>> Due to a change in wincontrol.inc regarding TabStop the TabControl 
>> has stopped working completely. It causes an A/V during create.
>
> Yes, I'll fix it. There is a old workaround, I'll see, if it is needed 
> further. https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=32455

I fixed the issue in revision 55892 and removed the old workaround.

Michl

From el.es.cr at gmail.com  Fri Sep 22 15:51:06 2017
From: el.es.cr at gmail.com (el es)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 14:51:06 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus]
 =?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
 =?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmebpVTH15s-FOPU3dGLT2Yf=mddJVoHpu-FokwWuqF0tkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <f2433ca3-7196-6f22-c07f-2ef382f7483a@lumino.de>
 <CA+ixmebpVTH15s-FOPU3dGLT2Yf=mddJVoHpu-FokwWuqF0tkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oq34g2$mlf$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 21/09/17 17:49, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:

> 
> [1] My posts about inheritance https://goo.gl/nzM4Ss
> 

If it only was in English ;) Unfortunately knowing Esperanto (once upon a time)
only gets you so far.... as 5% ;)

-L.


From md at delfire.net  Fri Sep 22 16:44:11 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 11:44:11 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <oq34g2$mlf$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <f2433ca3-7196-6f22-c07f-2ef382f7483a@lumino.de>
 <CA+ixmebpVTH15s-FOPU3dGLT2Yf=mddJVoHpu-FokwWuqF0tkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oq34g2$mlf$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmead2fJJg4ch99esgVeM1LXB4T4RW8OOaSn=V4MbWW3qoQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:51 AM, el es via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> On 21/09/17 17:49, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>
>>
>> [1] My posts about inheritance https://goo.gl/nzM4Ss
>>
>
> If it only was in English ;) Unfortunately knowing Esperanto (once upon a time)
> only gets you so far.... as 5% ;)

The blog is written in Portuguese.
Maybe I can be far from readers here, on this list. But remember that
Brazil — Portuguese speakers — is a huge country and I have a consider
audience. There are others countries that speak Portuguese too, as
Portugal of course.

However, the second largest audience in my blog, comes from English
speakers. Third comes from Portugal. Believe or not.

So, you can do like them: just use Google Translator.   :)

Regards,
Marcos Douglas

From pascaldragon at googlemail.com  Sat Sep 23 00:40:24 2017
From: pascaldragon at googlemail.com (Sven Barth)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2017 00:40:24 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <oq34g2$mlf$1@blaine.gmane.org>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <f2433ca3-7196-6f22-c07f-2ef382f7483a@lumino.de>
 <CA+ixmebpVTH15s-FOPU3dGLT2Yf=mddJVoHpu-FokwWuqF0tkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oq34g2$mlf$1@blaine.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAFMUeB-XkeaKUL9kOfgfxh__0JpNW2Z--wbqy_yi=aEJ3u-kkQ@mail.gmail.com>

Am 22.09.2017 15:51 schrieb "el es via Lazarus" <
lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>:
>
> On 21/09/17 17:49, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>
> >
> > [1] My posts about inheritance https://goo.gl/nzM4Ss
> >
>
> If it only was in English ;) Unfortunately knowing Esperanto (once upon a
time)
> only gets you so far.... as 5% ;)

Google Translate does a rather good job of translating the articles :)

Regards,
Sven
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From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Sat Sep 23 10:25:46 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2017 09:25:46 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus]
 =?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
 =?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeYLa=EYWuzQwZRKPg+5DwK-Qj_mcCA3gEhJ2N6cF_Q0VA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709210025300.4909@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeYLa=EYWuzQwZRKPg+5DwK-Qj_mcCA3gEhJ2N6cF_Q0VA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0104a1d1-0469-5345-e014-e2d8355eecf8@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-21 04:06, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
> 
> Nah... most of them know nothing about true OOP.
> They believe that an object is a "record" with getters and setters... anyway.

If I understand you correctly... referring to Java developers, then that 
is a totally wrong generalisation.


> As you said, each his own style. What is more important is keeping
> this excellent community united, around that great language called
> Object Pascal.

I love Object Pascal too, and have a real soft spot for it (and always 
will). But G*D damn, Java is brilliant too. Not just Java the language, 
but the millions of frameworks and tools built around it too (JPA, 
Spring Boot, Jenkins, Maven etc). Also the understated Java Annotations 
are unbelievably powerful and can (and does) reduce the amount of 
boilerplate code tremendously(*).

FPC doesn't even cover the most basic of things - no decent debugger 
that can handle all the Object Pascal language features. :-/


* Take a gander at how much Java Annotations reduced boiler plate code
   using JPA in EJB 3.0 and later vs EJB 2.1 which didn't use
   annotations.

 
http://web.archive.org/web/20100731223045/http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/articles/javaee/jpa-137156.html




Regards,
   Graeme

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

From michael at freepascal.org  Sat Sep 23 13:36:51 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2017 13:36:51 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <0104a1d1-0469-5345-e014-e2d8355eecf8@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709210025300.4909@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeYLa=EYWuzQwZRKPg+5DwK-Qj_mcCA3gEhJ2N6cF_Q0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0104a1d1-0469-5345-e014-e2d8355eecf8@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709231328260.27284@home.telenet.be>



On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:

> On 2017-09-21 04:06, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>> 
>> Nah... most of them know nothing about true OOP.
>> They believe that an object is a "record" with getters and setters... 
> anyway.
>
> If I understand you correctly... referring to Java developers, then that 
> is a totally wrong generalisation.
>
>
>> As you said, each his own style. What is more important is keeping
>> this excellent community united, around that great language called
>> Object Pascal.
>
> I love Object Pascal too, and have a real soft spot for it (and always 
> will). But G*D damn, Java is brilliant too. Not just Java the language, 
> but the millions of frameworks and tools built around it too (JPA, 
> Spring Boot, Jenkins, Maven etc). Also the understated Java Annotations 
> are unbelievably powerful and can (and does) reduce the amount of 
> boilerplate code tremendously(*).
>
> FPC doesn't even cover the most basic of things - no decent debugger 
> that can handle all the Object Pascal language features. :-/

Of course not. FPC is not a debugger, it is a compiler.

But if you put the combined resources of IBM and Oracle at our disposal,
we'll quickly catch up.

> * Take a gander at how much Java Annotations reduced boiler plate code
>   using JPA in EJB 3.0 and later vs EJB 2.1 which didn't use
>   annotations.
>
> 
> http://web.archive.org/web/20100731223045/http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/articles/javaee/jpa-137156.html

That's actually a step backwards.
Because it breaks the separation of object and storage.

Good for some quick and dirty prototyping, but a potential disaster in the long run.

It suffices that the DBA decides to move (part of) the data for storage, and
you're dead...

I have to manage an API where the same data can meanwhile come from 1 to 4 different
kinds of databases, depending on some (for all practical purposes) random parameter. 
Luckily, at the start I separated storage and object.

Michael.

From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Sat Sep 23 18:30:01 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2017 17:30:01 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus]
 =?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
 =?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709231328260.27284@home.telenet.be>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709210025300.4909@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeYLa=EYWuzQwZRKPg+5DwK-Qj_mcCA3gEhJ2N6cF_Q0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0104a1d1-0469-5345-e014-e2d8355eecf8@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709231328260.27284@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <c9a12d24-9a96-40e8-621b-2a9020f634f1@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-23 12:36, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:
>> FPC doesn't even cover the most basic of things - no decent debugger
>> that can handle all the Object Pascal language features. :-/
 >
> Of course not. FPC is not a debugger, it is a compiler.

Strange then that FPC includes many other tools like documentation 
generators and such. But something as critical as a debugger has always 
been brushed under the carpet (low or no priority). A compiler and 
debugger go hand-in-hand as part of a developer's "toolbox" - think 
minimum requirements.


Regards,
   Graeme

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

From michael at freepascal.org  Sat Sep 23 22:11:59 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2017 22:11:59 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <c9a12d24-9a96-40e8-621b-2a9020f634f1@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709210025300.4909@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeYLa=EYWuzQwZRKPg+5DwK-Qj_mcCA3gEhJ2N6cF_Q0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0104a1d1-0469-5345-e014-e2d8355eecf8@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709231328260.27284@home.telenet.be>
 <c9a12d24-9a96-40e8-621b-2a9020f634f1@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709232211190.17804@home.telenet.be>



On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:

> On 2017-09-23 12:36, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:
>>> FPC doesn't even cover the most basic of things - no decent debugger
>>> that can handle all the Object Pascal language features. :-/
> >
>> Of course not. FPC is not a debugger, it is a compiler.
>
> Strange then that FPC includes many other tools like documentation 
> generators and such.

Touché :-)

A good debugger is indeed sorely missed.

Michael.

From pascaldragon at googlemail.com  Sun Sep 24 09:31:51 2017
From: pascaldragon at googlemail.com (Sven Barth)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 09:31:51 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <CAFMUeB_GHvJHpMGM0zyAqe-rcYgY-dD90UvY+JapEmBwxiJwcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709210025300.4909@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeYLa=EYWuzQwZRKPg+5DwK-Qj_mcCA3gEhJ2N6cF_Q0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0104a1d1-0469-5345-e014-e2d8355eecf8@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709231328260.27284@home.telenet.be>
 <c9a12d24-9a96-40e8-621b-2a9020f634f1@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <CAFMUeB996yt=j2MURHkj_tdKpXkR8_L_QQK1fk5JZhXXjAtM1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFMUeB_GHvJHpMGM0zyAqe-rcYgY-dD90UvY+JapEmBwxiJwcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFMUeB9ipLjDy-O9KXAo0O6A6kGF_MC-84onjAOMWci=goQ_Ng@mail.gmail.com>

Am 23.09.2017 18:30 schrieb "Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus" <
lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>:
>
> On 2017-09-23 12:36, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:
>>>
>>> FPC doesn't even cover the most basic of things - no decent debugger
>>> that can handle all the Object Pascal language features. :-/
>
> >
>>
>> Of course not. FPC is not a debugger, it is a compiler.
>
>
> Strange then that FPC includes many other tools like documentation
generators and such. But something as critical as a debugger has always
been brushed under the carpet (low or no priority). A compiler and debugger
go hand-in-hand as part of a developer's "toolbox" - think minimum
requirements.

Considering that both compilers and debuggers are considered part of the
Holy Trinity of programming (with the third being operating systems) I
personally am not surprised as writing any of those three is a hard task,
much harder than e.g. a documentation generator and we definitely don't
have the manpower for that.

Regards,
Sven
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From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Sun Sep 24 09:55:04 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 08:55:04 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus]
 =?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
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In-Reply-To: <CAFMUeB9ipLjDy-O9KXAo0O6A6kGF_MC-84onjAOMWci=goQ_Ng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709210025300.4909@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeYLa=EYWuzQwZRKPg+5DwK-Qj_mcCA3gEhJ2N6cF_Q0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0104a1d1-0469-5345-e014-e2d8355eecf8@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709231328260.27284@home.telenet.be>
 <c9a12d24-9a96-40e8-621b-2a9020f634f1@geldenhuys.co.uk>
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 <CAFMUeB_GHvJHpMGM0zyAqe-rcYgY-dD90UvY+JapEmBwxiJwcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFMUeB9ipLjDy-O9KXAo0O6A6kGF_MC-84onjAOMWci=goQ_Ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d9828f8-d042-b7f2-8c62-a34d1d3e659d@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-24 08:31, Sven Barth via Lazarus wrote:
> Holy Trinity of programming (with the third being operating systems) I
> personally am not surprised as writing any of those three is a hard task,
> much harder than e.g. a documentation generator and we definitely don't
> have the manpower for that.

Well, some of use have attempted that in the past - myself included. 
Good progress was made, but little time always being the enemy of open 
source, and nobody jumping in to help meant many of those debugger 
efforts has stopped. But that's the joys of open source - people only 
work on what they find interesting - if they have the time. :)

Regards,
   Graeme

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Sun Sep 24 10:02:24 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 09:02:24 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus]
 =?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
 =?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709231328260.27284@home.telenet.be>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709210025300.4909@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeYLa=EYWuzQwZRKPg+5DwK-Qj_mcCA3gEhJ2N6cF_Q0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0104a1d1-0469-5345-e014-e2d8355eecf8@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709231328260.27284@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <c3ef5f91-6cf9-451e-8c91-492b55c36f62@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-23 12:36, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:
> That's actually a step backwards.
> Because it breaks the separation of object and storage.

Of course I would normally agree with that, but if you look at the Java 
annotations in that article - they are not code per-se, but more like 
small code comments - enough to tell the JPA backend what to do. And 
Java's RTTI is chock full of information, so the JPA backend can extract 
exactly what it needs.

eg:
@Entity
public class Person {
  ...
}

That's enough to notify the JPA that the Person class can be persisted 
to a "Person" table.

They also work on the concept that defaults are used. You only add 
annotations if the defaults should not be used. This again minimise 
developer effort tremendously.


> Good for some quick and dirty prototyping, but a potential disaster in the long run.

No more effort that maintaining an external XML mapping file, or 
hard-coded CRUD visitor.


> It suffices that the DBA decides to move (part of) the data for storage, and
> you're dead...

That would break all code I can think of, and would require developer 
effort to resolve no matter what.


Sorry, this is getting a bit off-topic in this mailing list, so I'll 
stop here.


Regards,
   Graeme

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Sun Sep 24 10:10:28 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 09:10:28 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus]
 =?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
 =?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <c3ef5f91-6cf9-451e-8c91-492b55c36f62@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709210025300.4909@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeYLa=EYWuzQwZRKPg+5DwK-Qj_mcCA3gEhJ2N6cF_Q0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0104a1d1-0469-5345-e014-e2d8355eecf8@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709231328260.27284@home.telenet.be>
 <c3ef5f91-6cf9-451e-8c91-492b55c36f62@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <90d4cdd2-74b1-86e7-8750-a9ef2bc7bfbe@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-24 09:02, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:
> Of course I would normally agree with that, but if you look at the Java
> annotations in that article


Just curious, I know C# has annotations support too. Does Delphi?

Regards,
   Graeme


From michael at freepascal.org  Sun Sep 24 10:13:53 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 10:13:53 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <90d4cdd2-74b1-86e7-8750-a9ef2bc7bfbe@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709210025300.4909@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeYLa=EYWuzQwZRKPg+5DwK-Qj_mcCA3gEhJ2N6cF_Q0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0104a1d1-0469-5345-e014-e2d8355eecf8@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709231328260.27284@home.telenet.be>
 <c3ef5f91-6cf9-451e-8c91-492b55c36f62@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <90d4cdd2-74b1-86e7-8750-a9ef2bc7bfbe@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709241013270.12775@home.telenet.be>



On Sun, 24 Sep 2017, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:

> On 2017-09-24 09:02, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:
>> Of course I would normally agree with that, but if you look at the Java
>> annotations in that article
>
>
> Just curious, I know C# has annotations support too. Does Delphi?

Yes. 
It's called Attributes. FPC has it too, but it is not yet in trunk.

Michael.

From juha.manninen62 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 24 11:41:03 2017
From: juha.manninen62 at gmail.com (Juha Manninen)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 12:41:03 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Help for solving an ActiveX regression crash bug
Message-ID: <CAPN1EhBtOCcbsU4bVx5-3TWuunR6T_Ein3v-iJnLzGeY0oGU+A@mail.gmail.com>

Regarding issue:
 https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=32375

Could somebody please provide a debugger backtrace and preferably a
patch to fix it.
Also finding out which revision caused the regression would be helpful.
 http://wiki.freepascal.org/How_do_I_create_a_bug_report#Regression_caused_by_a_certain_revision

There are other similar issues which will likely be solved at the same go, like:
 https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=32030

My own development system has Linux and I will not configure a Windows
system now. A long ToDo list already...

Juha

From md at delfire.net  Sun Sep 24 15:00:45 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 10:00:45 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
	=?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <0104a1d1-0469-5345-e014-e2d8355eecf8@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709210025300.4909@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeYLa=EYWuzQwZRKPg+5DwK-Qj_mcCA3gEhJ2N6cF_Q0VA@mail.gmail.com>
 <0104a1d1-0469-5345-e014-e2d8355eecf8@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeaajG3pixBQ54TRjGxv3gCoeLyXTrPRW2U6xDTtiu-Ffw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 5:25 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> On 2017-09-21 04:06, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>>
>>
>> Nah... most of them know nothing about true OOP.
>> They believe that an object is a "record" with getters and setters...
>> anyway.
>
>
> If I understand you correctly... referring to Java developers, then that is
> a totally wrong generalisation.

Ok, I will rephrase: most that I know, met, or that I read an article
or comment on the internet.

>> As you said, each his own style. What is more important is keeping
>> this excellent community united, around that great language called
>> Object Pascal.
>
>
> I love Object Pascal too, and have a real soft spot for it (and always
> will). But G*D damn, Java is brilliant too. Not just Java the language, but
> the millions of frameworks and tools built around it too (JPA, Spring Boot,
> Jenkins, Maven etc). Also the understated Java Annotations are unbelievably
> powerful and can (and does) reduce the amount of boilerplate code
> tremendously(*).
>
> FPC doesn't even cover the most basic of things - no decent debugger that
> can handle all the Object Pascal language features. :-/

Unfortunately, I have to agree about the debugger.  :(

> * Take a gander at how much Java Annotations reduced boiler plate code
>   using JPA in EJB 3.0 and later vs EJB 2.1 which didn't use
>   annotations.
>
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20100731223045/http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/articles/javaee/jpa-137156.html

Thanks,

Marcos Douglas

From m-w-vogel at gmx.de  Sun Sep 24 15:41:48 2017
From: m-w-vogel at gmx.de (Michael W. Vogel)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 15:41:48 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Help for solving an ActiveX regression crash bug
In-Reply-To: <CAPN1EhBtOCcbsU4bVx5-3TWuunR6T_Ein3v-iJnLzGeY0oGU+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPN1EhBtOCcbsU4bVx5-3TWuunR6T_Ein3v-iJnLzGeY0oGU+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f68de83c-bdb5-0394-3c11-f3eab27cb7ca@gmx.de>

Am 24.09.2017 um 11:41 schrieb Juha Manninen via Lazarus:
> Regarding issue:
>   https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=32375
>
> Could somebody please provide a debugger backtrace and preferably a
> patch to fix it.
> Also finding out which revision caused the regression would be helpful.
>   http://wiki.freepascal.org/How_do_I_create_a_bug_report#Regression_caused_by_a_certain_revision
>
> There are other similar issues which will likely be solved at the same go, like:
>   https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=32030
>
> My own development system has Linux and I will not configure a Windows
> system now. A long ToDo list already...

I'll have a look at this issue and report.

Michl

From m-w-vogel at gmx.de  Sun Sep 24 20:20:14 2017
From: m-w-vogel at gmx.de (Michael W. Vogel)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 20:20:14 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Help for solving an ActiveX regression crash bug
In-Reply-To: <f68de83c-bdb5-0394-3c11-f3eab27cb7ca@gmx.de>
References: <CAPN1EhBtOCcbsU4bVx5-3TWuunR6T_Ein3v-iJnLzGeY0oGU+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <f68de83c-bdb5-0394-3c11-f3eab27cb7ca@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <cef5df13-f5fb-bcbc-dc6d-d616b00bf4b8@gmx.de>

Am 24.09.2017 um 15:41 schrieb Michael W. Vogel via Lazarus:
> Am 24.09.2017 um 11:41 schrieb Juha Manninen via Lazarus:
>> Regarding issue:
>>   https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=32375
>>
>> Could somebody please provide a debugger backtrace and preferably a
>> patch to fix it.
>> Also finding out which revision caused the regression would be helpful.
>> http://wiki.freepascal.org/How_do_I_create_a_bug_report#Regression_caused_by_a_certain_revision
>>
>> There are other similar issues which will likely be solved at the 
>> same go, like:
>>   https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=32030
>>
>> My own development system has Linux and I will not configure a Windows
>> system now. A long ToDo list already...
>
> I'll have a look at this issue and report.

I added the relavant info on bugtracker.

Michl

From el.es.cr at gmail.com  Mon Sep 25 10:22:51 2017
From: el.es.cr at gmail.com (el es)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 09:22:51 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus]
 =?utf-8?q?=5BANN=5D_Xavier_for_XML_=E2=80=94_Compatible?=
 =?utf-8?q?_with_FPC_and_Delphi?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmead2fJJg4ch99esgVeM1LXB4T4RW8OOaSn=V4MbWW3qoQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeaaZKuM4GMr1e_rrpBRD5qM88M82EfF7+tyrphTL2Ox2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709202129410.31057@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmea_x5KTBgjoPMWxBF0pZpRW+snaTg79AhbJDB5YsMbYeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <f2433ca3-7196-6f22-c07f-2ef382f7483a@lumino.de>
 <CA+ixmebpVTH15s-FOPU3dGLT2Yf=mddJVoHpu-FokwWuqF0tkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <oq34g2$mlf$1@blaine.gmane.org>
 <CA+ixmead2fJJg4ch99esgVeM1LXB4T4RW8OOaSn=V4MbWW3qoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oqaecj$2hs$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 22/09/17 15:44, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:

> So, you can do like them: just use Google Translator.   :)
> 
> Regards,
> Marcos Douglas
> 

Am 22.09.2017 15:51 schrieb "el es via Lazarus" <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>:
>

>Google Translate does a rather good job of translating the articles :)

>Regards,
>Sven


I'll give it a try, thanks :)

-L.


From juha.manninen62 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 25 11:07:25 2017
From: juha.manninen62 at gmail.com (Juha Manninen)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 12:07:25 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Help for solving an ActiveX regression crash bug
In-Reply-To: <cef5df13-f5fb-bcbc-dc6d-d616b00bf4b8@gmx.de>
References: <CAPN1EhBtOCcbsU4bVx5-3TWuunR6T_Ein3v-iJnLzGeY0oGU+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <f68de83c-bdb5-0394-3c11-f3eab27cb7ca@gmx.de>
 <cef5df13-f5fb-bcbc-dc6d-d616b00bf4b8@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <CAPN1EhD-8nZMstbkN0=a53M_nuZ-N=QM=njzjRuqCN42JOZOjA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 9:20 PM, Michael W. Vogel via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> I added the relavant info on bugtracker.

Thanks.
You found the InterfacePropertyEditor and issue:
  https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=31324
as the culprit.
There was a similar issue:
  https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=24570
which I tried to solve a long time ago but failed. It is now marked as
resolved together with the other issue.
I hope Mattias and/or Michal Gawrycki can look at the issue at some point.

Juha

From m-w-vogel at gmx.de  Mon Sep 25 11:38:16 2017
From: m-w-vogel at gmx.de (Michael W. Vogel)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 11:38:16 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Help for solving an ActiveX regression crash bug
In-Reply-To: <CAPN1EhD-8nZMstbkN0=a53M_nuZ-N=QM=njzjRuqCN42JOZOjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPN1EhBtOCcbsU4bVx5-3TWuunR6T_Ein3v-iJnLzGeY0oGU+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <f68de83c-bdb5-0394-3c11-f3eab27cb7ca@gmx.de>
 <cef5df13-f5fb-bcbc-dc6d-d616b00bf4b8@gmx.de>
 <CAPN1EhD-8nZMstbkN0=a53M_nuZ-N=QM=njzjRuqCN42JOZOjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <793f22a1-90c1-0c18-05f5-82297260ef7a@gmx.de>

Am 25.09.2017 um 11:07 schrieb Juha Manninen via Lazarus:
> On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 9:20 PM, Michael W. Vogel via Lazarus
> <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>> I added the relavant info on bugtracker.
> Thanks.
> You found the InterfacePropertyEditor and issue:
>    https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=31324
> as the culprit.
> There was a similar issue:
>    https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=24570
> which I tried to solve a long time ago but failed. It is now marked as
> resolved together with the other issue.
> I hope Mattias and/or Michal Gawrycki can look at the issue at some point.

The main problem is, if the Component = nil for 
TInterfacePropertyEditor.AllEqual the result was changed to true. 
Thatswhile there is a AV. But I don't know, why for Component := 
GetComponentReference there is the component nil?!

Also (maybe the same reason) AV by freeing the component.

Michl

From md at delfire.net  Mon Sep 25 20:02:43 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 15:02:43 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Yes, yes... another email about Unicode, because it has not been
completed yet. Sorry.
I would like to know how I can develop CLI and GUI (Lazarus) programs
using just UnicodeString, making them all compatible with Delphi
compiler.

My environment is:
Lazarus 1.9.0 r54784 FPC 3.0.1 i386-win32-win32/win64

I thought that I could use this:

{$mode delphi}
{$modeswitch unicodestrings}

Then, I made some tests:

1- Writing a CLI with basic chars:

===code-begin===
program Project1;
{$mode delphi}
{$modeswitch unicodestrings}
uses
  SysUtils, Classes;
const
  TXT = '1'#13#10'2'#13#10'3';
var
  Ss: TStrings;
begin
  Ss := TStringList.Create;
  try
    Ss.Text := TXT;
    Writeln('text ', ss.Text);
    Writeln('count ', ss.Count);
  finally
    Ss.Free;
  end;
  ReadLn;
end.
===code-end===

===output-begin===
text 1
2
3

count 3
===output-end===

Everything worked. No warnings. Good.


Then I changed the const like this:
===code-begin===
const
  TXT: string = '1'#13#10'2'#13#10'3';
===code-end===

Everything worked. But now I have a warning:
project1.lpr(13,19) Warning: Implicit string type conversion with
potential data loss from "UnicodeString" to "AnsiString"

Why?
Is not String supposed to be UnicodeString?
Is TStrings ANSI and because that I got this warning?


Then I changed the const like this:
===code-begin===
const
  TXT = '1'#13#10'2'#13#10'3'#13#10'áéíóú';
===code-end===


And:
===output-begin===
text 1
2
3
áéíóú

count 4
===output-end===

Is it not possible to write accented chars to display at the console?




2- Writing a GUI with basic chars:

I just copy the same code with some modifications:
===code-begin===
unit Unit1;

{$mode delphi}
{$modeswitch unicodestrings}

interface

uses
  Classes, SysUtils, FileUtil, Forms, Controls, Graphics, Dialogs, StdCtrls;

type
  TForm1 = class(TForm)
    Button1: TButton;
    procedure Button1Click(Sender: TObject);
  end;

var
  Form1: TForm1;

implementation

{$R *.lfm}

const
  TXT = '1'#13#10'2'#13#10'3'#13#10;

{ TForm1 }

procedure TForm1.Button1Click(Sender: TObject);
var
  Ss: TStrings;
begin
  Ss := TStringList.Create;
  try
    Ss.Text := TXT;
    ShowMessage('text ' + ss.Text);
    ShowMessage('count ' + ss.Count.ToString);
  finally
    Ss.Free;
  end;
end;

end.
===code-end===


Everything worked. But now I have a few warnings:

Compile Project, Target: C:\temp\project1.exe: Success, Warnings: 4
unit1.pas(36,29) Warning: Implicit string type conversion from
"AnsiString" to "UnicodeString"
unit1.pas(36,34) Warning: Implicit string type conversion with
potential data loss from "UnicodeString" to "AnsiString"
unit1.pas(37,30) Warning: Implicit string type conversion from
"AnsiString" to "UnicodeString"
unit1.pas(37,45) Warning: Implicit string type conversion with
potential data loss from "UnicodeString" to "AnsiString"


Then, I changed the const like this (again):
===code-begin===
const
  TXT: string = '1'#13#10'2'#13#10'3';
===code-end===

Everything worked. But now I have same warnings before.



Then, I changed the const like this (yeah, again):
===code-begin===
const
  TXT = '1'#13#10'2'#13#10'3'#13#10'áéíóú';
===code-end===

Everything worked. But now I have same warnings before.


Finally ,I changed the const like this:
===code-begin===
const
  TXT: string = '1'#13#10'2'#13#10'3'#13#10'áéíóú';
===code-end===

And now, the first message is:
[Window Title]
project1

[Content]
text 1
2
3
áéíóú



Summary:

1. I did simple programs with simple constants and I got different
results or warnings.

2. I truly believe that smarter people as FPC team, Lazarus team, and
all smart collaborators can code CLI, GUI and all compatible with
Delphi... but for me is still very hard to understand.


What I need and my thoughts for help you to help me:

1. I would like to use just "string" everywhere.
2. I DON'T care about performance like gain 2ms... 10ms... 1s... I
really don't care, if I can code a simple and elegant code.
3. Don't think external files. If a have a UTF8 encoded file, I know
that and I can use string conversion... but it is EXTERNAL, not part
of the code. So, in my mind this is OK and normal.

Again, my env is:
Lazarus 1.9.0 r54784 FPC 3.0.1 i386-win32-win32/win64


May I code using just "string"?

Thank you.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From lazarus at kluug.net  Mon Sep 25 20:19:26 2017
From: lazarus at kluug.net (Ondrej Pokorny)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 20:19:26 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>

On 25.09.2017 20:02, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
> May I code using just "string"?

Yes. LCL is ANSI/UTF8 only, so is TStrings.

You can write Lazarus+Delphi compatible code without a lot of problems. 
Just use the string type. The only thing you have to be aware is that in 
Delphi you work with UTF-16 and in Lazarus with UTF-8 - but for most 
cases it doesn't really matter. You will have to write your own methods 
with IFDEF-ed code for things where it matters (read/write from/to 
buffer, char-by-char iterations etc.).

Ondrej

From md at delfire.net  Mon Sep 25 20:32:32 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 15:32:32 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeZ_QdF3MBmXisDFxfM0VLJJAOc9QLhDrkmdjqPC8dcPBQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Ondrej Pokorny via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> On 25.09.2017 20:02, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>>
>> May I code using just "string"?
>
>
> Yes. LCL is ANSI/UTF8 only, so is TStrings.
>
> You can write Lazarus+Delphi compatible code without a lot of problems. Just
> use the string type. The only thing you have to be aware is that in Delphi
> you work with UTF-16 and in Lazarus with UTF-8 - but for most cases it
> doesn't really matter. You will have to write your own methods with IFDEF-ed
> code for things where it matters (read/write from/to buffer, char-by-char
> iterations etc.).

But my code had different outputs and/or warnings only using Lazarus!

You said compatible.
What about Warnings?
Why I need IFDEF-ed if the code "is" compatible?

For example, is this code compatible/work with/on Delphi?
https://github.com/mdbs99/james/blob/a9ad48fb8eaf4f11c6dd7b65d6ac2f63e6fc09fb/test/james.data.tests.pas#L57

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From md at delfire.net  Mon Sep 25 20:51:25 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 15:51:25 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeZ_QdF3MBmXisDFxfM0VLJJAOc9QLhDrkmdjqPC8dcPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CA+ixmeZ_QdF3MBmXisDFxfM0VLJJAOc9QLhDrkmdjqPC8dcPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmea=4JeSyXonwjd1YZ-qNq4Oj2D7vymxS+wZHiCBS_hmjA@mail.gmail.com>

I understand use IFDEF to compile in different platforms like Windows
vs... err... Haiku. Of Linux vs Nintendo Wii...
But why should I use IFDEF in a code that should be the same in both
compilers (FPC vs Delphi)?
Is it because the string type is not Unicode? OK, so I want to convert
all to use UTF16, ie, UnicodeString (wrong name) and make ALL code
compatible. But this is looks like not possible without:

* IFDEFs
* know a few {modes}
* know what type of string I'm working on


If there is an argument in the compiler to compile it with the
definition of "all string is an UnicodeString like Java, C#, Delphi
and all them", would be great.
Then we will compile the compiler and Lazarus with the same type of
string and everything will work.
It will be slower than now? Yes, maybe... but we already use objects!
If you want 500% performance, use pointers, records and procedures
with whatever encode you want. But if you use objects, the overhead
already exists... and who cares? 1ms... 2ms... even 2s that you may
lost using UTF16? (or UTF8, but make all equal!) So? The world is
using Ruby and they don't care... or Python, Java... and they store in
UTF16 too, which requires a double of space... but if it works and the
code is clean, should be more important, don't agree?

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From pascaldragon at googlemail.com  Mon Sep 25 21:43:04 2017
From: pascaldragon at googlemail.com (Sven Barth)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 21:43:04 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmea=4JeSyXonwjd1YZ-qNq4Oj2D7vymxS+wZHiCBS_hmjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CA+ixmeZ_QdF3MBmXisDFxfM0VLJJAOc9QLhDrkmdjqPC8dcPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea=4JeSyXonwjd1YZ-qNq4Oj2D7vymxS+wZHiCBS_hmjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4bd14a3a-480e-62ea-7962-2f64cd47d4d6@googlemail.com>

On 25.09.2017 20:51, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
> I understand use IFDEF to compile in different platforms like Windows
> vs... err... Haiku. Of Linux vs Nintendo Wii...
> But why should I use IFDEF in a code that should be the same in both
> compilers (FPC vs Delphi)?

Because they *aren't* the same. In Delphi String = UnicodeString while
in the RTL, the FCL and the LCL String = AnsiString(CP_ACP) and using a
different modeswitch *does not* change that, cause modes are unit specific.

> Is it because the string type is not Unicode? OK, so I want to convert
> all to use UTF16, ie, UnicodeString (wrong name) and make ALL code
> compatible. But this is looks like not possible without:
> 
> * IFDEFs
> * know a few {modes}
> * know what type of string I'm working on
> 
> 
> If there is an argument in the compiler to compile it with the
> definition of "all string is an UnicodeString like Java, C#, Delphi
> and all them", would be great.
> Then we will compile the compiler and Lazarus with the same type of
> string and everything will work.

Especially the RTL is not ready for String = UnicodeString. So your best
bet is to use UTF8String or set the default code page to UTF8 (the LCL
units do that by default if I remember correctly, but Ondrej can confirm
or deny that).

> It will be slower than now? Yes, maybe... but we already use objects!
> If you want 500% performance, use pointers, records and procedures
> with whatever encode you want. But if you use objects, the overhead
> already exists... and who cares? 1ms... 2ms... even 2s that you may
> lost using UTF16? (or UTF8, but make all equal!) So? The world is
> using Ruby and they don't care... or Python, Java... and they store in
> UTF16 too, which requires a double of space... but if it works and the
> code is clean, should be more important, don't agree?

For FPC also more restricted targets are to be kept in mind (AVR, DOS,
etc.). So the RTL will be adjusted in a way that it can be easily
compiled with String = UnicodeString or as is now with String =
AnsiString(CP_ACP). But we are not there yet.

Regards,
Sven

From md at delfire.net  Mon Sep 25 22:18:05 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 17:18:05 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <4bd14a3a-480e-62ea-7962-2f64cd47d4d6@googlemail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CA+ixmeZ_QdF3MBmXisDFxfM0VLJJAOc9QLhDrkmdjqPC8dcPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea=4JeSyXonwjd1YZ-qNq4Oj2D7vymxS+wZHiCBS_hmjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4bd14a3a-480e-62ea-7962-2f64cd47d4d6@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeZeKjY-i1P_cwJw=aZdGyi1boOFb5Ms7-4=16sKR5X+2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Sven,
First of all, thanks for your time to answer me.

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 4:43 PM, Sven Barth via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> On 25.09.2017 20:51, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>> I understand use IFDEF to compile in different platforms like Windows
>> vs... err... Haiku. Of Linux vs Nintendo Wii...
>> But why should I use IFDEF in a code that should be the same in both
>> compilers (FPC vs Delphi)?
>
> Because they *aren't* the same. In Delphi String = UnicodeString while
> in the RTL, the FCL and the LCL String = AnsiString(CP_ACP) and using a
> different modeswitch *does not* change that, cause modes are unit specific.

Yes, but using {$modeswitch unicodestrings}, at least in a certain
unit, should work with the same code between compilers because
"string", for that unit, is UnicodeString as Delphi string is, no?

> Especially the RTL is not ready for String = UnicodeString. So your best
> bet is to use UTF8String or set the default code page to UTF8 (the LCL
> units do that by default if I remember correctly, but Ondrej can confirm
> or deny that).

Yes, Lazarus do that by default. But did you see in my examples, at
the first email, how many inconsistencies I got, using just Lazarus
and change chars in one simple constant?

>> It will be slower than now? Yes, maybe... but we already use objects!
>> If you want 500% performance, use pointers, records and procedures
>> with whatever encode you want. But if you use objects, the overhead
>> already exists... and who cares? 1ms... 2ms... even 2s that you may
>> lost using UTF16? (or UTF8, but make all equal!) So? The world is
>> using Ruby and they don't care... or Python, Java... and they store in
>> UTF16 too, which requires a double of space... but if it works and the
>> code is clean, should be more important, don't agree?
>
> For FPC also more restricted targets are to be kept in mind (AVR, DOS,
> etc.).

I know almost nothing about compilers. But IMHO, the compiler should
have which it already have: "string", which is an alias.
Then, for each OS, we should pass one argument like (simplifying):
-S=UnicodeString  or -S=AnsiString... something like that (I hope you
understood).
I mean, we should not have overload functions, but only one type of
string. Even if that type may be RawByteString.

After compiled, we will have a RTL that will work follow the "-S" argument.

> So the RTL will be adjusted in a way that it can be easily
> compiled with String = UnicodeString or as is now with String =
> AnsiString(CP_ACP). But we are not there yet.

Now we're talking.
Almost everyone that know how to work with "the group of strings",
making them compatible between FPC and Delphi, are saying that Unicode
is already done and everything is fine. You are the first one to say
that is not complete yet. Thank you. I'm glad to know that I'm not
crazy.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de  Mon Sep 25 22:45:03 2017
From: nc-gaertnma at netcologne.de (Mattias Gaertner)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 22:45:03 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeZeKjY-i1P_cwJw=aZdGyi1boOFb5Ms7-4=16sKR5X+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CA+ixmeZ_QdF3MBmXisDFxfM0VLJJAOc9QLhDrkmdjqPC8dcPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea=4JeSyXonwjd1YZ-qNq4Oj2D7vymxS+wZHiCBS_hmjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4bd14a3a-480e-62ea-7962-2f64cd47d4d6@googlemail.com>
 <CA+ixmeZeKjY-i1P_cwJw=aZdGyi1boOFb5Ms7-4=16sKR5X+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170925224503.7d95cddf@limapholos.matflo.wg>

On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 17:18:05 -0300
"Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus" <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>
wrote:

>[...]
> Yes, but using {$modeswitch unicodestrings}, at least in a certain
> unit, should work with the same code between compilers because
> "string", for that unit, is UnicodeString as Delphi string is, no?

The important thing is "in a certain unit". As soon as you access
strings from other units, you have to consider their type.

 
> > Especially the RTL is not ready for String = UnicodeString. So your best
> > bet is to use UTF8String or set the default code page to UTF8 (the LCL
> > units do that by default if I remember correctly, but Ondrej can confirm
> > or deny that).  

Unit LazUtf8 does it.

 
> Yes, Lazarus do that by default. But did you see in my examples, at
> the first email, how many inconsistencies I got, using just Lazarus
> and change chars in one simple constant?

Your first email does not contain a simple Lazarus+string example. I
see an example for LCL+unicodestring.

 
>[...]
> I know almost nothing about compilers. But IMHO, the compiler should
> have which it already have: "string", which is an alias.
> Then, for each OS, we should pass one argument like (simplifying):
> -S=UnicodeString  or -S=AnsiString... something like that (I hope you
> understood).

The flags are -MDelphiUnicode, -MDelphi or -MObjFPC.
But they only compile the units with sources in the unit path, which
excludes all FPC units. Also keep in mind that the system unit and the
RTL require a lot of low level functions, which require separate
versions.


> I mean, we should not have overload functions, but only one type of
> string. Even if that type may be RawByteString.

From a user pov: Yes, that's what Lazarus is recommending: Simply use
one string type, and that is String. The confusion starts when you start
using different string types.


> After compiled, we will have a RTL that will work follow the "-S" argument.

The RTL has already a lot of IFDEFs for the coming UnicodeString RTL.

 
> > So the RTL will be adjusted in a way that it can be easily
> > compiled with String = UnicodeString or as is now with String =
> > AnsiString(CP_ACP). But we are not there yet.  
> 
> Now we're talking.
> Almost everyone that know how to work with "the group of strings",
> making them compatible between FPC and Delphi, are saying that Unicode
> is already done and everything is fine. You are the first one to say
> that is not complete yet. Thank you. I'm glad to know that I'm not
> crazy.

Unicode <> UnicodeString
Unicode is working with UTF-8.
If you want a Delphi compatible UTF-16 RTL and packages you are welcome
to help the FPC team.


Mattias

From pascaldragon at googlemail.com  Mon Sep 25 23:10:04 2017
From: pascaldragon at googlemail.com (Sven Barth)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 23:10:04 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeZeKjY-i1P_cwJw=aZdGyi1boOFb5Ms7-4=16sKR5X+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CA+ixmeZ_QdF3MBmXisDFxfM0VLJJAOc9QLhDrkmdjqPC8dcPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea=4JeSyXonwjd1YZ-qNq4Oj2D7vymxS+wZHiCBS_hmjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4bd14a3a-480e-62ea-7962-2f64cd47d4d6@googlemail.com>
 <CA+ixmeZeKjY-i1P_cwJw=aZdGyi1boOFb5Ms7-4=16sKR5X+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fc122321-9e10-229d-be45-8b969fc6341d@googlemail.com>

On 25.09.2017 22:18, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
> Hi Sven,
> First of all, thanks for your time to answer me.
> 
> On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 4:43 PM, Sven Barth via Lazarus
> <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>> On 25.09.2017 20:51, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>>> I understand use IFDEF to compile in different platforms like Windows
>>> vs... err... Haiku. Of Linux vs Nintendo Wii...
>>> But why should I use IFDEF in a code that should be the same in both
>>> compilers (FPC vs Delphi)?
>>
>> Because they *aren't* the same. In Delphi String = UnicodeString while
>> in the RTL, the FCL and the LCL String = AnsiString(CP_ACP) and using a
>> different modeswitch *does not* change that, cause modes are unit specific.
> 
> Yes, but using {$modeswitch unicodestrings}, at least in a certain
> unit, should work with the same code between compilers because
> "string", for that unit, is UnicodeString as Delphi string is, no?

Yes, but it does not change the types of functions, classes, etc. that
are used. They have the types they were compiled with while you are
using a different string type. So you can't simply override a virtual
method for example that has a String argument that is in fact a
AnsiString with a method that has a String that's a UnicodeString as
argument. So of course there will be warnings in case you're passing
UnicodeString variables to AnsiString variables.

>> Especially the RTL is not ready for String = UnicodeString. So your best
>> bet is to use UTF8String or set the default code page to UTF8 (the LCL
>> units do that by default if I remember correctly, but Ondrej can confirm
>> or deny that).
> 
> Yes, Lazarus do that by default. But did you see in my examples, at
> the first email, how many inconsistencies I got, using just Lazarus
> and change chars in one simple constant?

Note: I'll ignore the GUI example, cause Ondrej might be better for that.

For the console you need to keep in mind that the console - at least on
Windows - has a code page as well. On my Linux - which is set to UTF-8 -
your example works without any problem, but if I use Wine I get the same
output as you.

>>> It will be slower than now? Yes, maybe... but we already use objects!
>>> If you want 500% performance, use pointers, records and procedures
>>> with whatever encode you want. But if you use objects, the overhead
>>> already exists... and who cares? 1ms... 2ms... even 2s that you may
>>> lost using UTF16? (or UTF8, but make all equal!) So? The world is
>>> using Ruby and they don't care... or Python, Java... and they store in
>>> UTF16 too, which requires a double of space... but if it works and the
>>> code is clean, should be more important, don't agree?
>>
>> For FPC also more restricted targets are to be kept in mind (AVR, DOS,
>> etc.).
> 
> I know almost nothing about compilers. But IMHO, the compiler should
> have which it already have: "string", which is an alias.
> Then, for each OS, we should pass one argument like (simplifying):
> -S=UnicodeString  or -S=AnsiString... something like that (I hope you
> understood).

The compiler is not the problem. It's that especially the low level part
of the RTL needs to be aware of the String type and handle it correctly.
Essentially all functions will need to be checked whether they can
correctly handle String (as in the generic string type) or are specific
for AnsiString and thus would need to be adjusted.

> I mean, we should not have overload functions, but only one type of
> string. Even if that type may be RawByteString.

You are wrong. Think about functions reading or writing data from/to
files. Especially when the data was written with the other String type
in mind.

> 
> After compiled, we will have a RTL that will work follow the "-S" argument.
> 
>> So the RTL will be adjusted in a way that it can be easily
>> compiled with String = UnicodeString or as is now with String =
>> AnsiString(CP_ACP). But we are not there yet.
> 
> Now we're talking.
> Almost everyone that know how to work with "the group of strings",
> making them compatible between FPC and Delphi, are saying that Unicode
> is already done and everything is fine. You are the first one to say
> that is not complete yet. Thank you. I'm glad to know that I'm not
> crazy.

Unicode itself is working, but in the form of UTF-8, not UTF-16 and as
such it is as compatible to Delphi as it can currently get with some
caveats when the specific type is important.

Regards,
Sven

From md at delfire.net  Mon Sep 25 23:11:22 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 18:11:22 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <20170925224503.7d95cddf@limapholos.matflo.wg>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CA+ixmeZ_QdF3MBmXisDFxfM0VLJJAOc9QLhDrkmdjqPC8dcPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea=4JeSyXonwjd1YZ-qNq4Oj2D7vymxS+wZHiCBS_hmjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4bd14a3a-480e-62ea-7962-2f64cd47d4d6@googlemail.com>
 <CA+ixmeZeKjY-i1P_cwJw=aZdGyi1boOFb5Ms7-4=16sKR5X+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170925224503.7d95cddf@limapholos.matflo.wg>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeYmKPnmHVGh7Ufnzw0t_uchii-OaBALRsR6v2wJc9=FSw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mattias,

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 17:18:05 -0300
> "Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus" <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>
> wrote:
>
>>[...]
>
> Your first email does not contain a simple Lazarus+string example. I
> see an example for LCL+unicodestring.

Yes, because I tried to make the code compatible. If Delphi uses UTF16
there is some logic to use it the same encode... I thought.

>>[...]
>> I know almost nothing about compilers. But IMHO, the compiler should
>> have which it already have: "string", which is an alias.
>> Then, for each OS, we should pass one argument like (simplifying):
>> -S=UnicodeString  or -S=AnsiString... something like that (I hope you
>> understood).
>
> The flags are -MDelphiUnicode, -MDelphi or -MObjFPC.
> But they only compile the units with sources in the unit path, which
> excludes all FPC units. Also keep in mind that the system unit and the
> RTL require a lot of low level functions, which require separate
> versions.

Which make this flags useless for that. It should be all code (my,
RTL, Lazarus, etc) to make this work using one type of string.

>> I mean, we should not have overload functions, but only one type of
>> string. Even if that type may be RawByteString.
>
> From a user pov: Yes, that's what Lazarus is recommending: Simply use
> one string type, and that is String. The confusion starts when you start
> using different string types.

Yeah, but DOM uses DOMString, which is WideString.
Lazarus uses UTF8 and have a laz2_DOM that uses "string", which is
UTF8, but I cannot use this unit with XPath unit, which needs a
TXMLDocument that works with WideString... see my point?
RTL was only ANSI, now has overload to UnicodeString... but according
with Sven, the Unicode support is not finished yet.

And what about the huge Warnings between these units, do you think
that is normal to use cast on everything?

> Unicode <> UnicodeString
> Unicode is working with UTF-8.
> If you want a Delphi compatible UTF-16 RTL and packages you are welcome
> to help the FPC team.

I can help in a high level way (Classes, Components, etc) not in the
compiler level.
But how can I know about these tasks? May I just pick one in bug
tracker that I want? How to know who is working on each task, which is
more important?

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From pascaldragon at googlemail.com  Mon Sep 25 23:23:01 2017
From: pascaldragon at googlemail.com (Sven Barth)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 23:23:01 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeYmKPnmHVGh7Ufnzw0t_uchii-OaBALRsR6v2wJc9=FSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CA+ixmeZ_QdF3MBmXisDFxfM0VLJJAOc9QLhDrkmdjqPC8dcPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea=4JeSyXonwjd1YZ-qNq4Oj2D7vymxS+wZHiCBS_hmjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4bd14a3a-480e-62ea-7962-2f64cd47d4d6@googlemail.com>
 <CA+ixmeZeKjY-i1P_cwJw=aZdGyi1boOFb5Ms7-4=16sKR5X+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170925224503.7d95cddf@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <CA+ixmeYmKPnmHVGh7Ufnzw0t_uchii-OaBALRsR6v2wJc9=FSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52b7765f-d57f-7c2b-f170-e57ec0499079@googlemail.com>

On 25.09.2017 23:11, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> I know almost nothing about compilers. But IMHO, the compiler should
>>> have which it already have: "string", which is an alias.
>>> Then, for each OS, we should pass one argument like (simplifying):
>>> -S=UnicodeString  or -S=AnsiString... something like that (I hope you
>>> understood).
>>
>> The flags are -MDelphiUnicode, -MDelphi or -MObjFPC.
>> But they only compile the units with sources in the unit path, which
>> excludes all FPC units. Also keep in mind that the system unit and the
>> RTL require a lot of low level functions, which require separate
>> versions.
> 
> Which make this flags useless for that. It should be all code (my,
> RTL, Lazarus, etc) to make this work using one type of string.

No, because especially the RTL and FCL is usually provided precompiled.
Thus you can't change the string type anymore afterwards without
recompiling all the code.

>> Unicode <> UnicodeString
>> Unicode is working with UTF-8.
>> If you want a Delphi compatible UTF-16 RTL and packages you are welcome
>> to help the FPC team.
> 
> I can help in a high level way (Classes, Components, etc) not in the
> compiler level.
> But how can I know about these tasks? May I just pick one in bug
> tracker that I want? How to know who is working on each task, which is
> more important?

Currently noone is working on it.

A first step would be to add modeswitch headers to all units that must
not use a specific mode (e.g. the System, ObjPas and some more language
support units) like this:

=== code begin ===

{$ifdef FPC_UNICODE_RTL}
{$modeswitch unicodestrings}
{$endif}

=== code end ===

Once this is done one can test to compile the RTL, FCL and packages with
FPC_UNICODE_RTL defined and see what blows and fix that step by step...

Alternatively a constant in the System unit might be better so that one
can check like this:

=== code begin ===

// System unit
{$ifdef FPC_UNICODE_RTL}
FpcRtlIsUnicode = true;
{$else}
FpcRtlIsUnicode = false;
{$endif}

// some other unit
{$if FpcRtlIsUnicode}
{$modeswitch unicodestrings}
{$endif}

=== code end ===

Or if one wants to compile with -Municodestrings than instead the core
units need to be protected with

=== code begin ===

{$modeswitch unicodestrings-}

=== code end ===

I'm currently not sure what would be the better approach in the long
term... :/

Regards,
Sven

From md at delfire.net  Mon Sep 25 23:35:02 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 18:35:02 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <fc122321-9e10-229d-be45-8b969fc6341d@googlemail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CA+ixmeZ_QdF3MBmXisDFxfM0VLJJAOc9QLhDrkmdjqPC8dcPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea=4JeSyXonwjd1YZ-qNq4Oj2D7vymxS+wZHiCBS_hmjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4bd14a3a-480e-62ea-7962-2f64cd47d4d6@googlemail.com>
 <CA+ixmeZeKjY-i1P_cwJw=aZdGyi1boOFb5Ms7-4=16sKR5X+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <fc122321-9e10-229d-be45-8b969fc6341d@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeb=VU3c65Fe+Bi2q5ir9nAEfLkEW11ixZxM739JNpbTPw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Sven Barth via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> On 25.09.2017 22:18, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>> [...]
>> Yes, but using {$modeswitch unicodestrings}, at least in a certain
>> unit, should work with the same code between compilers because
>> "string", for that unit, is UnicodeString as Delphi string is, no?
>
> Yes, but it does not change the types of functions, classes, etc. that
> are used. They have the types they were compiled with while you are
> using a different string type. So you can't simply override a virtual
> method for example that has a String argument that is in fact a
> AnsiString with a method that has a String that's a UnicodeString as
> argument. So of course there will be warnings in case you're passing
> UnicodeString variables to AnsiString variables.

I saw that many RTL functions have an overload like this:
Function FileExists (Const FileName : RawByteString) : Boolean;
Function FileExists (Const FileName : UnicodeString) : Boolean;

The first one calls the second:
Function FileExists (Const FileName : RawByteString) : Boolean;
begin
  Result:=FileExists(UnicodeString(FileName));
end;

My question is:
No matter the encode of FileName: RawByteString is, if I cast to
UnicodeString I will not have any loss of characters?

>> Yes, Lazarus do that by default. But did you see in my examples, at
>> the first email, how many inconsistencies I got, using just Lazarus
>> and change chars in one simple constant?
>
> Note: I'll ignore the GUI example, cause Ondrej might be better for that.

No problem.

> For the console you need to keep in mind that the console - at least on
> Windows - has a code page as well. On my Linux - which is set to UTF-8 -
> your example works without any problem, but if I use Wine I get the same
> output as you.

Ok, but the compiler knows if a program is a CLI, I believe... so, it
could change those variables DefaultSystemCodePage,
DefaultFileSystemCodePage...
For users (developers) is not clear, do you agree?

>>[...]
>> I know almost nothing about compilers. But IMHO, the compiler should
>> have which it already have: "string", which is an alias.
>> Then, for each OS, we should pass one argument like (simplifying):
>> -S=UnicodeString  or -S=AnsiString... something like that (I hope you
>> understood).
>
> The compiler is not the problem. It's that especially the low level part
> of the RTL needs to be aware of the String type and handle it correctly.
> Essentially all functions will need to be checked whether they can
> correctly handle String (as in the generic string type) or are specific
> for AnsiString and thus would need to be adjusted.

I see...

>> I mean, we should not have overload functions, but only one type of
>> string. Even if that type may be RawByteString.
>
> You are wrong. Think about functions reading or writing data from/to
> files. Especially when the data was written with the other String type
> in mind.

It is normal that external data (files) to have different encodes.
IMO, only in these cases, we should care about encoding, because an
external data is outside of our code, we cannot control it.

>> After compiled, we will have a RTL that will work follow the "-S" argument.
>>
>>> So the RTL will be adjusted in a way that it can be easily
>>> compiled with String = UnicodeString or as is now with String =
>>> AnsiString(CP_ACP). But we are not there yet.
>>
>> Now we're talking.
>> Almost everyone that know how to work with "the group of strings",
>> making them compatible between FPC and Delphi, are saying that Unicode
>> is already done and everything is fine. You are the first one to say
>> that is not complete yet. Thank you. I'm glad to know that I'm not
>> crazy.
>
> Unicode itself is working, but in the form of UTF-8, not UTF-16 and as
> such it is as compatible to Delphi as it can currently get with some
> caveats when the specific type is important.

Well, I only setted {mode delphi} and {modeswitch unicodestrings} and
I did not leave Lazarus and still got strange results... looks like
FPC flags is not compatible with itself or Lazarus.
Again, I know that you, Mattias and many others understand that
perfectly. But my examples were very simple, but they didn't work
perfectly using just FPC and Lazarus.

Regards,
Marcos Douglas

From md at delfire.net  Tue Sep 26 00:04:29 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 19:04:29 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <52b7765f-d57f-7c2b-f170-e57ec0499079@googlemail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CA+ixmeZ_QdF3MBmXisDFxfM0VLJJAOc9QLhDrkmdjqPC8dcPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea=4JeSyXonwjd1YZ-qNq4Oj2D7vymxS+wZHiCBS_hmjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4bd14a3a-480e-62ea-7962-2f64cd47d4d6@googlemail.com>
 <CA+ixmeZeKjY-i1P_cwJw=aZdGyi1boOFb5Ms7-4=16sKR5X+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170925224503.7d95cddf@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <CA+ixmeYmKPnmHVGh7Ufnzw0t_uchii-OaBALRsR6v2wJc9=FSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <52b7765f-d57f-7c2b-f170-e57ec0499079@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmebHEA2BGrksTpM3O8WAxsZVm+21JbGj2bBJ_Wb_dh2i_w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 6:23 PM, Sven Barth via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> On 25.09.2017 23:11, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>> The flags are -MDelphiUnicode, -MDelphi or -MObjFPC.
>>> But they only compile the units with sources in the unit path, which
>>> excludes all FPC units. Also keep in mind that the system unit and the
>>> RTL require a lot of low level functions, which require separate
>>> versions.
>>
>> Which make this flags useless for that. It should be all code (my,
>> RTL, Lazarus, etc) to make this work using one type of string.
>
> No, because especially the RTL and FCL is usually provided precompiled.
> Thus you can't change the string type anymore afterwards without
> recompiling all the code.

That's I am talking about.
I use FPC and Lazarus by sources. I compile both. Never used an installer...
Maybe you already answered in other way, but: In that case, can I
compile FPC and Lazarus with these flags (all strings=UnicodeString)
and everything will work like that?

>> I can help in a high level way (Classes, Components, etc) not in the
>> compiler level.
>> But how can I know about these tasks? May I just pick one in bug
>> tracker that I want? How to know who is working on each task, which is
>> more important?
>
> Currently noone is working on it.

:-O

> A first step would be to add modeswitch headers to all units that must
> not use a specific mode (e.g. the System, ObjPas and some more language
> support units) like this:
>
> === code begin ===
>
> {$ifdef FPC_UNICODE_RTL}
> {$modeswitch unicodestrings}
> {$endif}
>
> === code end ===
>
> Once this is done one can test to compile the RTL, FCL and packages with
> FPC_UNICODE_RTL defined and see what blows and fix that step by step...
>
> Alternatively a constant in the System unit might be better so that one
> can check like this:
>
> === code begin ===
>
> // System unit
> {$ifdef FPC_UNICODE_RTL}
> FpcRtlIsUnicode = true;
> {$else}
> FpcRtlIsUnicode = false;
> {$endif}
>
> // some other unit
> {$if FpcRtlIsUnicode}
> {$modeswitch unicodestrings}
> {$endif}
>
> === code end ===

I've put {$modeswitch unicodestrings} in two simple programs (CLI and
GUI) and... CRASH!
Imagine working with this on the compiler level...  :)


My first thought about is that:
Every argument of all classes and functions should be raw string —
RawByteString.
May have some other types (UTF8String, UTF16String, etc) only for
users to use in the high level. For example: If the user know that a
file was encoded in UFT8, he/she will use UTF8String only to receive
that buffer.
Then, every single RTL class/function that works with Strings, should
check which encode was used (and we already have this today). These
functions will received an "string", will check which encode is (ie,
UTF8String following the example), and will pass to another built-in
private function to do the job.

"UnicodeString", as we know today, shouldn't exists. This does not
make any sense.
Only RawByteString — which should be only "string" — and others types
that defines the encode, as I said above, but used only once to
receive the buffer.

> Or if one wants to compile with -Municodestrings than instead the core
> units need to be protected with
>
> === code begin ===
>
> {$modeswitch unicodestrings-}
>
> === code end ===
>
> I'm currently not sure what would be the better approach in the long
> term... :/

Just guessing:
The default is not Unicode so, shouldn't have logic to use
{$modeswitch unicodestrings-}.

Regards,
Marcos Douglas

From juha.manninen62 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 26 00:52:14 2017
From: juha.manninen62 at gmail.com (Juha Manninen)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 01:52:14 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
Message-ID: <CAPN1EhD-8Frz2dANvC9pC3FGcNf9bb1FrQYAAgsWzyDAmT4xUw@mail.gmail.com>

Marcos Douglas, this wiki page answers all your questions about using
Unicode with Lazarus:
 http://wiki.freepascal.org/Unicode_Support_in_Lazarus


On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Ondrej Pokorny via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> You will have to write your own methods with IFDEF-ed code for things
> where it matters (read/write from/to buffer, char-by-char iterations etc.).

For iterating codepoints or even "Unicode characters" (*) you don't need IFDEFs.
Unit LazUnicode provides helper functions and iterators for it.

(*) Unicode character here includes combining codepoints which covers
most practical use cases at least with western languages.

Juha

From juha.manninen62 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 26 01:01:04 2017
From: juha.manninen62 at gmail.com (Juha Manninen)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 02:01:04 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CAPN1EhD-8Frz2dANvC9pC3FGcNf9bb1FrQYAAgsWzyDAmT4xUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CAPN1EhD-8Frz2dANvC9pC3FGcNf9bb1FrQYAAgsWzyDAmT4xUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPN1EhBiUuK+JVFg8wpmwo4J2z_W-LLKnkuwekmmQZBAFqhuJA@mail.gmail.com>

And more ...

Marcos Douglas, the Unicode solution in Lazarus works amazingly well
when your data is Unicode from the start.
It only has trouble with Windows system codepages but they can be
converted, too.
Question: what is the fundamental problem? Why can't you use the
system as it is advertised and documented?

Juha

From md at delfire.net  Tue Sep 26 02:14:10 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 21:14:10 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CAPN1EhD-8Frz2dANvC9pC3FGcNf9bb1FrQYAAgsWzyDAmT4xUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CAPN1EhD-8Frz2dANvC9pC3FGcNf9bb1FrQYAAgsWzyDAmT4xUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeagD81e881=ORvm7TxQXzF=MLJcNUbM3C+mPwH64mUj0g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 7:52 PM, Juha Manninen via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> Marcos Douglas, this wiki page answers all your questions about using
> Unicode with Lazarus:
>  http://wiki.freepascal.org/Unicode_Support_in_Lazarus

OK, let's talk:

1. "Using UTF-8 in non-LCL programs"
"In a non-LCL project add a dependency for LazUtils package. Then add
LazUTF8 unit in the uses section of main program file. It must be near
the beginning, just after the critical memory managers and threading
stuff (e.g. cmem, heaptrc, cthreads)."

Indeed, that was very good. Thanks.
That solved one of my questions. I tested and it worked perfectly.
I would say that should be part of compiler, not in a Lazarus package,
because this is a basic thing that should work without other "3rd
lib".


2. "Assign a constant always to a type String variable."

So, you mean that I cannot declare a constant without specify the
type. The language allow me but it won't work?


3. "Calling API functions that use WideString or UnicodeString"
"When a parameter type is WideString or UnicodeString, you can just
pass a String to it. The compiler converts data automatically. There
will be a warning about converting from AnsiString to UnicodeString
which can be either ignored or suppressed by typecasting the String to
UnicodeString."

Then the example:
=== code begin ===
procedure ApiCall(aParam: UnicodeString);  // Definition.
 ...
ApiCall(S);                // Call with String S, ignore warning.
ApiCall(UnicodeString(S)); // Call with String S, suppress warning.

=== code end ===

All these warnings is so annoying. I understood the point here, but I
don't like to see any hint or warning. I need to solve all.
But, I am in doubt about what is more annoying: typecasting all
arguments or ignore all.


3.1. "When a parameter type is a pointer PWideChar, you need a
temporary UnicodeString variable. Assign your String to it. The
compiler then converts its data. Then typecast the temporary variable
to PWideChar."
=== code begin ===
procedure ApiCallP(aParamP: PWideChar);  // Definition.
 ...
var Tmp: UnicodeString;   // Temporary variable.
 ...
Tmp := S;                 // Assign String -> UnicodeString.
ApiCallP(PWideChar(Tmp)); // Call with temp variable, typecast to pointer.
=== code end ===

That is a ugly hack. This code doesn't make any sense, if you don't
know about these Unicode issues.
We need do remember that trick when we are coding... not good.


4. "Reading / writing text file with Windows codepage"
"This is not compatible with Delphi nor with former Lazarus code. In
practice you must encapsulate the code dealing with system codepage
and convert the data to UTF-8 as quickly as possible."

The text said: "This is not compatible with Delphi ".

Examples on that page are hacks.


5. "CodePoint functions for encoding agnostic code"

I liked to know that exists an unit to work with Code Point which is
agnostic if the encoding is UTF8 or UTF16. I will use it. Thanks
again.


On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 8:01 PM, Juha Manninen via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> And more ...
>
> Marcos Douglas, the Unicode solution in Lazarus works amazingly well
> when your data is Unicode from the start.
> It only has trouble with Windows system codepages but they can be
> converted, too.

Nowadays, I'm only using Windows so...

> Question: what is the fundamental problem? Why can't you use the
> system as it is advertised and documented?

I've already wrote my issues from the first email. Please, see the
first email and then, one of my answer to Mattias about WideString,
DOM, etc.


Summary:
I know that was a huge work for who made that. Lazarus is more
Unicode, more compatible with Delphi, and the team could move on.
Great.
But you might agree with me that this is far from a good design, right?


Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From juha.manninen62 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 26 02:52:43 2017
From: juha.manninen62 at gmail.com (Juha Manninen)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 03:52:43 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeagD81e881=ORvm7TxQXzF=MLJcNUbM3C+mPwH64mUj0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CAPN1EhD-8Frz2dANvC9pC3FGcNf9bb1FrQYAAgsWzyDAmT4xUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmeagD81e881=ORvm7TxQXzF=MLJcNUbM3C+mPwH64mUj0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPN1EhD=RqKwFZpE6fDFGA8PN2yvbN4bWvF6gbfVfcJ+MmHznQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 3:14 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> So, you mean that I cannot declare a constant without specify the
> type. The language allow me but it won't work?

Yes you can declare a string constant without specifying the type.


> 3.1. "When a parameter type is a pointer PWideChar,
> you need a temporary UnicodeString variable.
> ...
> That is a ugly hack. This code doesn't make any sense, if you don't
> know about these Unicode issues.
> We need do remember that trick when we are coding... not good.

It is not so ugly. It is actually an elegant solution. Just one
assignment, using the FPC's automatic conversion in a clever way. No
explicit conversion functions or anything.
The "ugly" pointer typecast is needed always, also in Delphi.


> 4. "Reading / writing text file with Windows codepage"
> ...
> The text said: "This is not compatible with Delphi ".
> Examples on that page are hacks.

The solution is to NOT use Windows codepages. They can be seen as a
historical remain with severe inherent problems which are solved by
Unicode already a long ago.
Windows has supported full Unicode since year 2000, and supported
UCS-2 before that.
Why would anybody still use the historical Windows codepages?


> Summary:
> I know that was a huge work for who made that. Lazarus is more
> Unicode, more compatible with Delphi, and the team could move on.
> Great.
> But you might agree with me that this is far from a good design, right?

IMO it is not far from a good design. From FPC's point of view it is a
hack but you can write 100% Delphi compatible code by following just
few simple rules (and dumping the historical Windows codepages).

Juha

From md at delfire.net  Tue Sep 26 03:37:43 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 22:37:43 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CAPN1EhD=RqKwFZpE6fDFGA8PN2yvbN4bWvF6gbfVfcJ+MmHznQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CAPN1EhD-8Frz2dANvC9pC3FGcNf9bb1FrQYAAgsWzyDAmT4xUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmeagD81e881=ORvm7TxQXzF=MLJcNUbM3C+mPwH64mUj0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhD=RqKwFZpE6fDFGA8PN2yvbN4bWvF6gbfVfcJ+MmHznQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmead4SRC50G_HFC-BU_PgJyVa6brnBbGs_yKdkiDcGfyig@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:52 PM, Juha Manninen via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 3:14 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
> <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>> So, you mean that I cannot declare a constant without specify the
>> type. The language allow me but it won't work?
>
> Yes you can declare a string constant without specifying the type.

But according with this table, I shouldn't do that because so many
problems could happen.
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Unicode_Support_in_Lazarus#Without_.7B.24codepage_utf8.7D_or_compilerswitch_-FcUTF8

>> 3.1. "When a parameter type is a pointer PWideChar,
>> you need a temporary UnicodeString variable.
>> ...
>> That is a ugly hack. This code doesn't make any sense, if you don't
>> know about these Unicode issues.
>> We need do remember that trick when we are coding... not good.
>
> It is not so ugly. It is actually an elegant solution. Just one
> assignment, using the FPC's automatic conversion in a clever way. No
> explicit conversion functions or anything.
> The "ugly" pointer typecast is needed always, also in Delphi.

The "ugly" is because we need to remember to do that instead of just
assign the variable.
IMHO, both design are wrong. But I understand that the problem is in
the compiler — or RTL.

>> 4. "Reading / writing text file with Windows codepage"
>> ...
>> The text said: "This is not compatible with Delphi ".
>> Examples on that page are hacks.
>
> The solution is to NOT use Windows codepages. They can be seen as a
> historical remain with severe inherent problems which are solved by
> Unicode already a long ago.
> Windows has supported full Unicode since year 2000, and supported
> UCS-2 before that.
> Why would anybody still use the historical Windows codepages?

So, no problems here and the page is outdated. OK.

>> Summary:
>> I know that was a huge work for who made that. Lazarus is more
>> Unicode, more compatible with Delphi, and the team could move on.
>> Great.
>> But you might agree with me that this is far from a good design, right?
>
> IMO it is not far from a good design. From FPC's point of view it is a
> hack but you can write 100% Delphi compatible code by following just
> few simple rules (and dumping the historical Windows codepages).

Like I said, it's a hack. But, again, it was|is a great job. No doubt.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From badsectoracula at gmail.com  Tue Sep 26 09:09:22 2017
From: badsectoracula at gmail.com (Kostas Michalopoulos)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 10:09:22 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmead4SRC50G_HFC-BU_PgJyVa6brnBbGs_yKdkiDcGfyig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CAPN1EhD-8Frz2dANvC9pC3FGcNf9bb1FrQYAAgsWzyDAmT4xUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmeagD81e881=ORvm7TxQXzF=MLJcNUbM3C+mPwH64mUj0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhD=RqKwFZpE6fDFGA8PN2yvbN4bWvF6gbfVfcJ+MmHznQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmead4SRC50G_HFC-BU_PgJyVa6brnBbGs_yKdkiDcGfyig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH=meXWGRHgXvpZ=HW27ixRd8fHO+0MpyV1t_=14AbXgYafYzg@mail.gmail.com>

I do not see how it is a hack, when you have a function taking a null
terminated string of a specific character type (in this case PWideChar) and
you only have the generic string type you don't know what format the
underlying memory of the string is so you cannot pass it as a pointer to
the function. In this case you need to convert to the explicit type.

These are (potentially) two different types, they just happen to be
strings. You could think of it as if you had a function Foo(VP: PSingle)
and a variable V: Number where Number could be either Single or Double
depending on some macro - but you don't know which one, so to avoid passing
a Double you'd need to assign it to a temporary variable to convert it to
the right type.

There is nothing wrong or hacky with that approach, this is how working
with functions that accept pointers work in general - you need to make sure
that the pointer you pass in is of the correct type.


On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 4:37 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus <
lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:52 PM, Juha Manninen via Lazarus
> <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 3:14 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
> > <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> >> So, you mean that I cannot declare a constant without specify the
> >> type. The language allow me but it won't work?
> >
> > Yes you can declare a string constant without specifying the type.
>
> But according with this table, I shouldn't do that because so many
> problems could happen.
> http://wiki.freepascal.org/Unicode_Support_in_Lazarus#
> Without_.7B.24codepage_utf8.7D_or_compilerswitch_-FcUTF8
>
> >> 3.1. "When a parameter type is a pointer PWideChar,
> >> you need a temporary UnicodeString variable.
> >> ...
> >> That is a ugly hack. This code doesn't make any sense, if you don't
> >> know about these Unicode issues.
> >> We need do remember that trick when we are coding... not good.
> >
> > It is not so ugly. It is actually an elegant solution. Just one
> > assignment, using the FPC's automatic conversion in a clever way. No
> > explicit conversion functions or anything.
> > The "ugly" pointer typecast is needed always, also in Delphi.
>
> The "ugly" is because we need to remember to do that instead of just
> assign the variable.
> IMHO, both design are wrong. But I understand that the problem is in
> the compiler — or RTL.
>
> >> 4. "Reading / writing text file with Windows codepage"
> >> ...
> >> The text said: "This is not compatible with Delphi ".
> >> Examples on that page are hacks.
> >
> > The solution is to NOT use Windows codepages. They can be seen as a
> > historical remain with severe inherent problems which are solved by
> > Unicode already a long ago.
> > Windows has supported full Unicode since year 2000, and supported
> > UCS-2 before that.
> > Why would anybody still use the historical Windows codepages?
>
> So, no problems here and the page is outdated. OK.
>
> >> Summary:
> >> I know that was a huge work for who made that. Lazarus is more
> >> Unicode, more compatible with Delphi, and the team could move on.
> >> Great.
> >> But you might agree with me that this is far from a good design, right?
> >
> > IMO it is not far from a good design. From FPC's point of view it is a
> > hack but you can write 100% Delphi compatible code by following just
> > few simple rules (and dumping the historical Windows codepages).
>
> Like I said, it's a hack. But, again, it was|is a great job. No doubt.
>
> Best regards,
> Marcos Douglas
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Lazarus mailing list
> Lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org
> https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
>
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From juha.manninen62 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 26 11:31:56 2017
From: juha.manninen62 at gmail.com (Juha Manninen)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 12:31:56 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmead4SRC50G_HFC-BU_PgJyVa6brnBbGs_yKdkiDcGfyig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CAPN1EhD-8Frz2dANvC9pC3FGcNf9bb1FrQYAAgsWzyDAmT4xUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmeagD81e881=ORvm7TxQXzF=MLJcNUbM3C+mPwH64mUj0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhD=RqKwFZpE6fDFGA8PN2yvbN4bWvF6gbfVfcJ+MmHznQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmead4SRC50G_HFC-BU_PgJyVa6brnBbGs_yKdkiDcGfyig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPN1EhA-pyyUPhN42RRFHVJgcf_Pa6iKxEeUBaaBmV4-_Hj2jQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 4:37 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> But according with this table, I shouldn't do that because so many
> problems could happen.
> http://wiki.freepascal.org/Unicode_Support_in_Lazarus#Without_.7B.24codepage_utf8.7D_or_compilerswitch_-FcUTF8

No. It works when assigning to String and that is what matters.


>> The solution is to NOT use Windows codepages.
>> ...
> So, no problems here and the page is outdated. OK.

The page is correct but your code and/or data is outdated if it uses
the Windows codepage encoding. :)
Well, honestly, why do you still use it?
Unicode has been around for decades. It solved all the horrible
problems inherent to locale dependent codepages. Windows has supported
full Unicode for ~18 years.
Maybe there still is a valid reason to use codepages but I don't know
what it is.


> Like I said, it's a hack. But, again, it was|is a great job. No doubt.

Yes. The wiki page lists 3 simple rules:
* Normally use type "String" instead of UTF8String or UnicodeString.
* Assign a constant always to a type String variable.
* Use type UnicodeString explicitly for API calls that need it.

For you I would add:
* Use Unicode instead of Windows system codepages.

With those rules the code is mostly compatible with Delphi. Not bad.

Juha

From juha.manninen62 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 26 14:09:03 2017
From: juha.manninen62 at gmail.com (Juha Manninen)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:09:03 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeYmKPnmHVGh7Ufnzw0t_uchii-OaBALRsR6v2wJc9=FSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CA+ixmeZ_QdF3MBmXisDFxfM0VLJJAOc9QLhDrkmdjqPC8dcPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea=4JeSyXonwjd1YZ-qNq4Oj2D7vymxS+wZHiCBS_hmjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4bd14a3a-480e-62ea-7962-2f64cd47d4d6@googlemail.com>
 <CA+ixmeZeKjY-i1P_cwJw=aZdGyi1boOFb5Ms7-4=16sKR5X+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170925224503.7d95cddf@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <CA+ixmeYmKPnmHVGh7Ufnzw0t_uchii-OaBALRsR6v2wJc9=FSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPN1EhC8tXRTas8USfFUM2AmEoDGY-H4GZq7e7z0i8r5i_7gtA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:11 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> Yeah, but DOM uses DOMString, which is WideString.
> Lazarus uses UTF8 and have a laz2_DOM that uses "string", which is
> UTF8, but I cannot use this unit with XPath unit, which needs a
> TXMLDocument that works with WideString... see my point?

That is a problem. I guess you can use the units with Lazarus but it
results to many conversions between encodings.
It should be solved somehow.

Juha

From zeljko at holobit.net  Tue Sep 26 18:29:32 2017
From: zeljko at holobit.net (zeljko)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 18:29:32 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CAPN1EhA-pyyUPhN42RRFHVJgcf_Pa6iKxEeUBaaBmV4-_Hj2jQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CAPN1EhD-8Frz2dANvC9pC3FGcNf9bb1FrQYAAgsWzyDAmT4xUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmeagD81e881=ORvm7TxQXzF=MLJcNUbM3C+mPwH64mUj0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhD=RqKwFZpE6fDFGA8PN2yvbN4bWvF6gbfVfcJ+MmHznQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmead4SRC50G_HFC-BU_PgJyVa6brnBbGs_yKdkiDcGfyig@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhA-pyyUPhN42RRFHVJgcf_Pa6iKxEeUBaaBmV4-_Hj2jQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4d6b2e8d-9536-f163-ae0e-e77a09e7ad6c@holobit.net>

On 26.09.2017 11:31, Juha Manninen via Lazarus wrote:

> Maybe there still is a valid reason to use codepages but I don't know
> what it is.

POS receipt printers :)

zeljko

From md at delfire.net  Tue Sep 26 21:51:33 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 16:51:33 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CAPN1EhA-pyyUPhN42RRFHVJgcf_Pa6iKxEeUBaaBmV4-_Hj2jQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CAPN1EhD-8Frz2dANvC9pC3FGcNf9bb1FrQYAAgsWzyDAmT4xUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmeagD81e881=ORvm7TxQXzF=MLJcNUbM3C+mPwH64mUj0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhD=RqKwFZpE6fDFGA8PN2yvbN4bWvF6gbfVfcJ+MmHznQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmead4SRC50G_HFC-BU_PgJyVa6brnBbGs_yKdkiDcGfyig@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhA-pyyUPhN42RRFHVJgcf_Pa6iKxEeUBaaBmV4-_Hj2jQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmea5D=pmdGNX=5btkDsd9szUQ9PCOC0BkuiKQqtJxvkBag@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 6:31 AM, Juha Manninen via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 4:37 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
> <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>> But according with this table, I shouldn't do that because so many
>> problems could happen.
>> http://wiki.freepascal.org/Unicode_Support_in_Lazarus#Without_.7B.24codepage_utf8.7D_or_compilerswitch_-FcUTF8
>
> No. It works when assigning to String and that is what matters.

I understood that I can use like this:
const
  VALUE: string = 'áéíóú';

Not like this:
const
  VALUE = 'áéíóú';

Right?
But this is not compile:
const
  V1: string = 'a';
  V2: string = V1 + 'b';

>>> The solution is to NOT use Windows codepages.
>>> ...
>> So, no problems here and the page is outdated. OK.
>
> The page is correct but your code and/or data is outdated if it uses
> the Windows codepage encoding. :)
> Well, honestly, why do you still use it?
> Unicode has been around for decades. It solved all the horrible
> problems inherent to locale dependent codepages. Windows has supported
> full Unicode for ~18 years.
> Maybe there still is a valid reason to use codepages but I don't know
> what it is.

I don't use it.

Regards,
Marcos Douglas

From md at delfire.net  Tue Sep 26 21:52:33 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 16:52:33 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CAPN1EhC8tXRTas8USfFUM2AmEoDGY-H4GZq7e7z0i8r5i_7gtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CA+ixmeZ_QdF3MBmXisDFxfM0VLJJAOc9QLhDrkmdjqPC8dcPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea=4JeSyXonwjd1YZ-qNq4Oj2D7vymxS+wZHiCBS_hmjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4bd14a3a-480e-62ea-7962-2f64cd47d4d6@googlemail.com>
 <CA+ixmeZeKjY-i1P_cwJw=aZdGyi1boOFb5Ms7-4=16sKR5X+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170925224503.7d95cddf@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <CA+ixmeYmKPnmHVGh7Ufnzw0t_uchii-OaBALRsR6v2wJc9=FSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhC8tXRTas8USfFUM2AmEoDGY-H4GZq7e7z0i8r5i_7gtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeYzKot2Z75+2hM52Wc5GZ1yFUkaxvxDd84rAzHNjn8BOg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Juha Manninen via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:11 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
> <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>> Yeah, but DOM uses DOMString, which is WideString.
>> Lazarus uses UTF8 and have a laz2_DOM that uses "string", which is
>> UTF8, but I cannot use this unit with XPath unit, which needs a
>> TXMLDocument that works with WideString... see my point?
>
> That is a problem. I guess you can use the units with Lazarus but it
> results to many conversions between encodings.
> It should be solved somehow.

So we can say that Lazarus code do not use XPath to work with XML, right?


Marcos Douglas

From hdpc at talktalk.net  Tue Sep 26 22:06:17 2017
From: hdpc at talktalk.net (Howard Page-Clark)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 21:06:17 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmea5D=pmdGNX=5btkDsd9szUQ9PCOC0BkuiKQqtJxvkBag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CAPN1EhD-8Frz2dANvC9pC3FGcNf9bb1FrQYAAgsWzyDAmT4xUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmeagD81e881=ORvm7TxQXzF=MLJcNUbM3C+mPwH64mUj0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhD=RqKwFZpE6fDFGA8PN2yvbN4bWvF6gbfVfcJ+MmHznQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmead4SRC50G_HFC-BU_PgJyVa6brnBbGs_yKdkiDcGfyig@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhA-pyyUPhN42RRFHVJgcf_Pa6iKxEeUBaaBmV4-_Hj2jQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea5D=pmdGNX=5btkDsd9szUQ9PCOC0BkuiKQqtJxvkBag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <75baa739-b22e-fe2e-39be-8ce805325dcd@talktalk.net>

On 26/09/17 20:51, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
> I understood that I can use like this:
> const
>    VALUE: string = 'áéíóú';
>
> Not like this:
> const
>    VALUE = 'áéíóú';
>
> Right?
> But this is not compile:
> const
>    V1: string = 'a';
>    V2: string = V1 + 'b';
You can't do that in a const declaration.
But in an implementation, the following does compile:

{$J+} {$H+}
const
   V1: string = 'a';
   V2: string = 'b';
   V3: String = '';

begin
   V3:=V1 + V2;
   WriteLn(V3);
end.

From md at delfire.net  Wed Sep 27 04:51:37 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 23:51:37 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <75baa739-b22e-fe2e-39be-8ce805325dcd@talktalk.net>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CAPN1EhD-8Frz2dANvC9pC3FGcNf9bb1FrQYAAgsWzyDAmT4xUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmeagD81e881=ORvm7TxQXzF=MLJcNUbM3C+mPwH64mUj0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhD=RqKwFZpE6fDFGA8PN2yvbN4bWvF6gbfVfcJ+MmHznQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmead4SRC50G_HFC-BU_PgJyVa6brnBbGs_yKdkiDcGfyig@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhA-pyyUPhN42RRFHVJgcf_Pa6iKxEeUBaaBmV4-_Hj2jQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea5D=pmdGNX=5btkDsd9szUQ9PCOC0BkuiKQqtJxvkBag@mail.gmail.com>
 <75baa739-b22e-fe2e-39be-8ce805325dcd@talktalk.net>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeah5gm0OG2Z+Tx_pR7fxvXfNmPf_eOq3-PYvbG9hhTwtw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Howard Page-Clark via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> On 26/09/17 20:51, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>>
>> I understood that I can use like this:
>> const
>>    VALUE: string = 'áéíóú';
>>
>> Not like this:
>> const
>>    VALUE = 'áéíóú';
>>
>> Right?
>> But this is not compile:
>> const
>>    V1: string = 'a';
>>    V2: string = V1 + 'b';
>
> You can't do that in a const declaration.
> But in an implementation, the following does compile:
>
> {$J+} {$H+}
> const
>   V1: string = 'a';
>   V2: string = 'b';
>   V3: String = '';
>
> begin
>   V3:=V1 + V2;
>   WriteLn(V3);
> end.

I know this trick that was deprecated a long time ago. A constant that
can change...
I think may be better not using constants in the code anymore.

But thanks, anyway.


Marcos Douglas

From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Wed Sep 27 10:16:43 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 09:16:43 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeah5gm0OG2Z+Tx_pR7fxvXfNmPf_eOq3-PYvbG9hhTwtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CAPN1EhD-8Frz2dANvC9pC3FGcNf9bb1FrQYAAgsWzyDAmT4xUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmeagD81e881=ORvm7TxQXzF=MLJcNUbM3C+mPwH64mUj0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhD=RqKwFZpE6fDFGA8PN2yvbN4bWvF6gbfVfcJ+MmHznQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmead4SRC50G_HFC-BU_PgJyVa6brnBbGs_yKdkiDcGfyig@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhA-pyyUPhN42RRFHVJgcf_Pa6iKxEeUBaaBmV4-_Hj2jQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea5D=pmdGNX=5btkDsd9szUQ9PCOC0BkuiKQqtJxvkBag@mail.gmail.com>
 <75baa739-b22e-fe2e-39be-8ce805325dcd@talktalk.net>
 <CA+ixmeah5gm0OG2Z+Tx_pR7fxvXfNmPf_eOq3-PYvbG9hhTwtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e5077e50-4a66-5777-3eb9-1875b91917a1@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-27 03:51, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
> A constant that
> can change...


Yeah, that concept still blows my mind. [figuratively speaking] They 
should shoot the developer that came up with that idea - and the team 
leader that approved it.

Regards,
   Graeme


From friess at gmx.at  Wed Sep 27 10:38:40 2017
From: friess at gmx.at (=?UTF-8?Q?Andreas_Frie=c3=9f?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:38:40 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] fpReport - can not render pagefooter
Message-ID: <9809112f-4049-e23e-96c9-cf5bb223eaee@gmx.at>

i have extracted a small sample for fpReport and Lazarus. But i have 
trouble to declare a working Pagefooter. The Pagefooter is defined, but 
not shown after the rendering. Not in LCLrendering, LCLpreview nor in 
the PDF.

The CreateDemoReport is extracted from the fpreportdesigner, so i think 
this is well tested :-) by graeme.

What is my mistake of understanding ?

Andreas

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From juha.manninen62 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 27 12:05:02 2017
From: juha.manninen62 at gmail.com (Juha Manninen)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 13:05:02 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeYzKot2Z75+2hM52Wc5GZ1yFUkaxvxDd84rAzHNjn8BOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CA+ixmeZ_QdF3MBmXisDFxfM0VLJJAOc9QLhDrkmdjqPC8dcPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea=4JeSyXonwjd1YZ-qNq4Oj2D7vymxS+wZHiCBS_hmjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4bd14a3a-480e-62ea-7962-2f64cd47d4d6@googlemail.com>
 <CA+ixmeZeKjY-i1P_cwJw=aZdGyi1boOFb5Ms7-4=16sKR5X+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170925224503.7d95cddf@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <CA+ixmeYmKPnmHVGh7Ufnzw0t_uchii-OaBALRsR6v2wJc9=FSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhC8tXRTas8USfFUM2AmEoDGY-H4GZq7e7z0i8r5i_7gtA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmeYzKot2Z75+2hM52Wc5GZ1yFUkaxvxDd84rAzHNjn8BOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPN1EhBPY6hRKMt+XBWfcGYZWoxUH32XKudGQh7ZCkn=5nTeuw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 10:52 PM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> So we can say that Lazarus code do not use XPath to work with XML, right?

No I cannot say much about the issue. I didn't try it myself.
I understood Mattias and Michael V.C. have plans to migrate the XML
units to FCL sources. Maybe they can elaborate.

> I don't use it. (Windows codepages)

Ok, then I misunderstood.  :)

About the string constant concatenation, just use variables when it is proper:
const
  V1: string = 'a';
var
  S1: String;
... later in code ...
  S1 := V1 + 'b';

String literals can be assigned without problems as long as your
variables are "String".
The big table in the wiki page is intimidating, in reality the issue
is not so complex.


On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 7:29 PM, zeljko <zeljko at holobit.net> wrote:
> POS receipt printers :)

Ok maybe. I don't have one, difficult to say.

Juha

From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Wed Sep 27 12:50:52 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 11:50:52 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] fpReport - can not render pagefooter
In-Reply-To: <9809112f-4049-e23e-96c9-cf5bb223eaee@gmx.at>
References: <9809112f-4049-e23e-96c9-cf5bb223eaee@gmx.at>
Message-ID: <6b834eea-c132-f0be-c15d-2f65e7a52168@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-27 09:38, Andreas Frieß via Lazarus wrote:
> What is my mistake of understanding ?

You made a couple of mistakes and highlighted a bug in the PDF exporter.

Mistakes:

1.  You never registered the standard page sizes with:
          PaperManager.RegisterStandardSizes;

2.  Your report used LiberationSans font. Make sure you added
     the search paths to the font cache. eg:

           {$IFDEF UNIX}
             gTTFontCache.SearchPath.Add(GetUserDir + '.fonts/');
 
gTTFontCache.SearchPath.Add('/data/devel/Wisa/fonts/Liberation/');
           {$ENDIF}

3.  You positioned a lot of reporting elements overlapping each
     other. Correct positioning will help you see things better. ;-)


Bug:

    The PDF exporter didn't handle Page.Orientation of Landscape
    correctly, and rendered such pages from the bottom upwards.
    I supplied a patch to FPC's Mantis so hopefully Michael or
    somebody could commit that soon.

       https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=32478


After all that, the report renders just fine.


ps:
   Note that I compiled your project using the latest fpReport from
   FPC Trunk. I simply set the correct Unit Source Path in the project.
   You don't need to use FPC Trunk compiler - I used FPC 2.6.4.


Regards,
   Graeme

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

From michael at freepascal.org  Wed Sep 27 13:31:20 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 13:31:20 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] fpReport - can not render pagefooter
In-Reply-To: <6b834eea-c132-f0be-c15d-2f65e7a52168@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <9809112f-4049-e23e-96c9-cf5bb223eaee@gmx.at>
 <6b834eea-c132-f0be-c15d-2f65e7a52168@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709271330530.865@home.telenet.be>



On Wed, 27 Sep 2017, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:

> On 2017-09-27 09:38, Andreas Frieß via Lazarus wrote:
>> What is my mistake of understanding ?
>
> You made a couple of mistakes and highlighted a bug in the PDF exporter.
>
> Mistakes:
>
> 1.  You never registered the standard page sizes with:
>          PaperManager.RegisterStandardSizes;
>
> 2.  Your report used LiberationSans font. Make sure you added
>     the search paths to the font cache. eg:
>
>           {$IFDEF UNIX}
>             gTTFontCache.SearchPath.Add(GetUserDir + '.fonts/');
> 
> gTTFontCache.SearchPath.Add('/data/devel/Wisa/fonts/Liberation/');
>           {$ENDIF}
>
> 3.  You positioned a lot of reporting elements overlapping each
>     other. Correct positioning will help you see things better. ;-)
>
>
> Bug:
>
>    The PDF exporter didn't handle Page.Orientation of Landscape
>    correctly, and rendered such pages from the bottom upwards.
>    I supplied a patch to FPC's Mantis so hopefully Michael or
>    somebody could commit that soon.
>
>       https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=32478
>
>
> After all that, the report renders just fine.

Patch Applied, thanks for the fix!

Michael.

From friess at gmx.at  Wed Sep 27 13:53:31 2017
From: friess at gmx.at (=?UTF-8?Q?Andreas_Frie=c3=9f?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 13:53:31 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] fpReport - can not render pagefooter
In-Reply-To: <6b834eea-c132-f0be-c15d-2f65e7a52168@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <9809112f-4049-e23e-96c9-cf5bb223eaee@gmx.at>
 <6b834eea-c132-f0be-c15d-2f65e7a52168@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9613ee3b-460c-18b7-6724-96147bb41362@gmx.at>

THX Graeme

In windows this is possible and running: -> I have my sample extended

procedure TForm1.FormActivate(Sender: TObject);
begin
   if not FInit then begin
     gTTFontCache.ReadStandardFonts;
     gTTFontCache.BuildFontCache;
     if PaperManager.PaperCount=0 then
       PaperManager.RegisterStandardSizes;
     FInit:= true;
   end;
end;

The problem with fontcache, is not (maybe direct) visible in the demo on 
FPReport Usage.

BTW: point 3 -> the code is copied direct from the 'designer' :-) not 
made on my own - lol.

Bugreport for the designer problem with orientation is 32470, i will 
check this and close if running.

Andreas


Am 27.09.2017 um 12:50 schrieb Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus:
> On 2017-09-27 09:38, Andreas Frieß via Lazarus wrote:
>> What is my mistake of understanding ?
>
> You made a couple of mistakes and highlighted a bug in the PDF exporter.
>
> Mistakes:
>
> 1.  You never registered the standard page sizes with:
>          PaperManager.RegisterStandardSizes;
>
> 2.  Your report used LiberationSans font. Make sure you added
>     the search paths to the font cache. eg:
>
>           {$IFDEF UNIX}
>             gTTFontCache.SearchPath.Add(GetUserDir + '.fonts/');
>
> gTTFontCache.SearchPath.Add('/data/devel/Wisa/fonts/Liberation/');
>           {$ENDIF}
>
> 3.  You positioned a lot of reporting elements overlapping each
>     other. Correct positioning will help you see things better. ;-)
>
>
> Bug:
>
>    The PDF exporter didn't handle Page.Orientation of Landscape
>    correctly, and rendered such pages from the bottom upwards.
>    I supplied a patch to FPC's Mantis so hopefully Michael or
>    somebody could commit that soon.
>
>       https://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=32478
>
>
> After all that, the report renders just fine.
>
>
> ps:
>   Note that I compiled your project using the latest fpReport from
>   FPC Trunk. I simply set the correct Unit Source Path in the project.
>   You don't need to use FPC Trunk compiler - I used FPC 2.6.4.
>
>
> Regards,
>   Graeme
>


From md at delfire.net  Wed Sep 27 14:24:10 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 09:24:10 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <e5077e50-4a66-5777-3eb9-1875b91917a1@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CAPN1EhD-8Frz2dANvC9pC3FGcNf9bb1FrQYAAgsWzyDAmT4xUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmeagD81e881=ORvm7TxQXzF=MLJcNUbM3C+mPwH64mUj0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhD=RqKwFZpE6fDFGA8PN2yvbN4bWvF6gbfVfcJ+MmHznQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmead4SRC50G_HFC-BU_PgJyVa6brnBbGs_yKdkiDcGfyig@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhA-pyyUPhN42RRFHVJgcf_Pa6iKxEeUBaaBmV4-_Hj2jQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea5D=pmdGNX=5btkDsd9szUQ9PCOC0BkuiKQqtJxvkBag@mail.gmail.com>
 <75baa739-b22e-fe2e-39be-8ce805325dcd@talktalk.net>
 <CA+ixmeah5gm0OG2Z+Tx_pR7fxvXfNmPf_eOq3-PYvbG9hhTwtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <e5077e50-4a66-5777-3eb9-1875b91917a1@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeahYgZo_zQiOtiwK84tOgcCuP2uoMKT3qWyFANmpYFtDQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 5:16 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> On 2017-09-27 03:51, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>>
>> A constant that
>> can change...
>
>
>
> Yeah, that concept still blows my mind. [figuratively speaking] They should
> shoot the developer that came up with that idea - and the team leader that
> approved it.

Everybody has crazy ideias... the problem is who sign them saying
"yeah, go ahead!" :)

Regards,
Marcos Douglas

From md at delfire.net  Wed Sep 27 14:35:30 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 09:35:30 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <CAPN1EhBPY6hRKMt+XBWfcGYZWoxUH32XKudGQh7ZCkn=5nTeuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CA+ixmeZ_QdF3MBmXisDFxfM0VLJJAOc9QLhDrkmdjqPC8dcPBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea=4JeSyXonwjd1YZ-qNq4Oj2D7vymxS+wZHiCBS_hmjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <4bd14a3a-480e-62ea-7962-2f64cd47d4d6@googlemail.com>
 <CA+ixmeZeKjY-i1P_cwJw=aZdGyi1boOFb5Ms7-4=16sKR5X+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170925224503.7d95cddf@limapholos.matflo.wg>
 <CA+ixmeYmKPnmHVGh7Ufnzw0t_uchii-OaBALRsR6v2wJc9=FSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhC8tXRTas8USfFUM2AmEoDGY-H4GZq7e7z0i8r5i_7gtA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmeYzKot2Z75+2hM52Wc5GZ1yFUkaxvxDd84rAzHNjn8BOg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhBPY6hRKMt+XBWfcGYZWoxUH32XKudGQh7ZCkn=5nTeuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmea6Zqyz3URs+BH=+6UpW7TSjoatNppaEuDGqTRX+ruObw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:05 AM, Juha Manninen via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 10:52 PM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
> [...]
> About the string constant concatenation, just use variables when it is proper:
> const
>   V1: string = 'a';
> var
>   S1: String;
> ... later in code ...
>   S1 := V1 + 'b';
>
> String literals can be assigned without problems as long as your
> variables are "String".
> The big table in the wiki page is intimidating, in reality the issue
> is not so complex.

I'm already doing that.
This not perfect, but is better than have problems. Thanks.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From el.es.cr at gmail.com  Thu Sep 28 10:10:21 2017
From: el.es.cr at gmail.com (el es)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:10:21 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] Converting all code to use UnicodeString
In-Reply-To: <e5077e50-4a66-5777-3eb9-1875b91917a1@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <CA+ixmeZ=MuGTwnwLGuXrn7_7y03mdMvVsN6eRozPN=ZDYnUR2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <a9b4850d-f0d6-9a0d-0f85-049a24453ccb@kluug.net>
 <CAPN1EhD-8Frz2dANvC9pC3FGcNf9bb1FrQYAAgsWzyDAmT4xUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmeagD81e881=ORvm7TxQXzF=MLJcNUbM3C+mPwH64mUj0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhD=RqKwFZpE6fDFGA8PN2yvbN4bWvF6gbfVfcJ+MmHznQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmead4SRC50G_HFC-BU_PgJyVa6brnBbGs_yKdkiDcGfyig@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPN1EhA-pyyUPhN42RRFHVJgcf_Pa6iKxEeUBaaBmV4-_Hj2jQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+ixmea5D=pmdGNX=5btkDsd9szUQ9PCOC0BkuiKQqtJxvkBag@mail.gmail.com>
 <75baa739-b22e-fe2e-39be-8ce805325dcd@talktalk.net>
 <CA+ixmeah5gm0OG2Z+Tx_pR7fxvXfNmPf_eOq3-PYvbG9hhTwtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <e5077e50-4a66-5777-3eb9-1875b91917a1@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <oqiap6$1cg$1@blaine.gmane.org>

On 27/09/17 09:16, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:
> On 2017-09-27 03:51, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>> A constant that can change...
> 
> 
> Yeah, that concept still blows my mind. [figuratively speaking] They
> should shoot the developer that came up with that idea - and the team
> leader that approved it.
> 
> Regards, Graeme
> 

comp.compilers.free-pascal.social is leaking ;)

It dates back to when, Turbo Pascal ?
Late 1980s / Early 1990s ?

Imagine this:

Developer (thinking): "The rave was great last weekend, still feeling the pain Thursday"
Developer: " we have this almost ready and this looks like a great idea"
Supervisor (thinking): "Ah the world's going to end next week anyway, who cares"
Supervisor: "OK, make it so"

;) 


-L.


From andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 28 12:05:44 2017
From: andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com (Andrea Mauri)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:05:44 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] fpReport - can not render pagefooter
In-Reply-To: <6b834eea-c132-f0be-c15d-2f65e7a52168@geldenhuys.co.uk>
References: <9809112f-4049-e23e-96c9-cf5bb223eaee@gmx.at>
 <6b834eea-c132-f0be-c15d-2f65e7a52168@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <05a5e00d-352d-d614-d87f-acc5198d0bbe@gmail.com>

Il 27/09/2017 12:50, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus ha scritto:
> ps:
>   Note that I compiled your project using the latest fpReport from
>   FPC Trunk. I simply set the correct Unit Source Path in the project.
>   You don't need to use FPC Trunk compiler - I used FPC 2.6.4.

What are the minimum requirements to use fpreport?
Can I use it with laz 1.6.2 and fpc 3.0.0?
I downloaded both fcl-report and fpreport.
I tried to install fpreport but I failed.
Any hint?

From michael at freepascal.org  Thu Sep 28 12:15:18 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:15:18 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] fpReport - can not render pagefooter
In-Reply-To: <05a5e00d-352d-d614-d87f-acc5198d0bbe@gmail.com>
References: <9809112f-4049-e23e-96c9-cf5bb223eaee@gmx.at>
 <6b834eea-c132-f0be-c15d-2f65e7a52168@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <05a5e00d-352d-d614-d87f-acc5198d0bbe@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281213390.29292@home.telenet.be>



On Thu, 28 Sep 2017, Andrea Mauri via Lazarus wrote:

> Il 27/09/2017 12:50, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus ha scritto:
>> ps:
>>   Note that I compiled your project using the latest fpReport from
>>   FPC Trunk. I simply set the correct Unit Source Path in the project.
>>   You don't need to use FPC Trunk compiler - I used FPC 2.6.4.
>
> What are the minimum requirements to use fpreport?
> Can I use it with laz 1.6.2 and fpc 3.0.0?
> I downloaded both fcl-report and fpreport.
> I tried to install fpreport but I failed.

Normally you can, but you will need to copy some additional units from the
trunk version of the FPC source repo (in particular, fpexprpars, and fcl-pdf)

fpReport is in production use with 2.6.4 as the compiler.

Michael.

From fjf.vanleeuwen at quicknet.nl  Thu Sep 28 12:20:28 2017
From: fjf.vanleeuwen at quicknet.nl (frans)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:20:28 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Why is OnShow not executed?
Message-ID: <5f6988f7-8778-fd62-b003-07740d02c7e4@quicknet.nl>

Hi

I'm using Lazarus 1.6.4 on Windows. I have a Form with a TPageControl 
with 5 tabsheet components.
Every tab has his own OnShow procedure to set the latest data in the fields.
Every time the Form is shown I want the first tab to become visible. 
Therefore the FormShow calls tab0.Show.
The first time the form shows it goes as I expect, the tab0 OnShow 
procedure is called and the data is set.
But when I close the form while showing the tab0, and then later opens 
it again, the FormShow is executed but tab0 OnShow is not. Apparently 
the program 'sees' that tab0 is already shown, so executing tab0.Show is 
not necessary. Is this as it should be?
To always execute the tab0 OnShow procedure I must call this directly. 
Is this the correct way?

-- 
mvg
Frans van Leeuwen
M 06-51695390


---
Deze e-mail is gecontroleerd op virussen door AVG.
http://www.avg.com


From vojtech.cihak at atlas.cz  Thu Sep 28 13:30:33 2017
From: vojtech.cihak at atlas.cz (=?utf-8?q?Vojt=C4=9Bch_=C4=8Cih=C3=A1k?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:30:33 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] =?utf-8?q?Why_is_OnShow_not_executed=3F?=
In-Reply-To: 000000007d3f00005b40013a5054
References: 000000007d3f00005b40013a5054
Message-ID: <20170928133033.04C157E8@atlas.cz>

Hi,
just tested, it is same in Delphi7. Refresh data manually in FormShow is one of correct ways.
 
V.
______________________________________________________________
> Od: frans via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>
> Komu: lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org
> Datum: 28.09.2017 12:20
> Předmět: [Lazarus] Why is OnShow not executed?
>
Hi
 
 I'm using Lazarus 1.6.4 on Windows. I have a Form with a TPageControl 
 with 5 tabsheet components.
 Every tab has his own OnShow procedure to set the latest data in the fields.
 Every time the Form is shown I want the first tab to become visible. 
 Therefore the FormShow calls tab0.Show.
 The first time the form shows it goes as I expect, the tab0 OnShow 
 procedure is called and the data is set.
 But when I close the form while showing the tab0, and then later opens 
 it again, the FormShow is executed but tab0 OnShow is not. Apparently 
 the program 'sees' that tab0 is already shown, so executing tab0.Show is 
 not necessary. Is this as it should be?
 To always execute the tab0 OnShow procedure I must call this directly. 
 Is this the correct way?
 
 -- 
 mvg
 Frans van Leeuwen
 M 06-51695390
 
 
 ---
 Deze e-mail is gecontroleerd op virussen door AVG.
 http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
 
 -- 
 _______________________________________________
 Lazarus mailing list
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From andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 28 13:36:15 2017
From: andrea.mauri.75 at gmail.com (Andrea Mauri)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:36:15 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] fpReport - can not render pagefooter
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281213390.29292@home.telenet.be>
References: <9809112f-4049-e23e-96c9-cf5bb223eaee@gmx.at>
 <6b834eea-c132-f0be-c15d-2f65e7a52168@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <05a5e00d-352d-d614-d87f-acc5198d0bbe@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281213390.29292@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <e8f0ec82-b288-e30c-da2c-7c3997b3208d@gmail.com>

Il 28/09/2017 12:15, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus ha scritto:
> Normally you can, but you will need to copy some additional units from the
> trunk version of the FPC source repo (in particular, fpexprpars, and
> fcl-pdf)
>
> fpReport is in production use with 2.6.4 as the compiler.

I downloaded fcl-report, fcl-pdf, fpexprpars from FPC trunk and fpreport.
When I try to compile lclfpreport package I got:
cfgfpreportimageexport.pp(24,42) Fatal: Cannot find fpreport used by 
cfgfpreportimageexport of package lclfpreport.

From michael at freepascal.org  Thu Sep 28 13:40:32 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:40:32 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] fpReport - can not render pagefooter
In-Reply-To: <e8f0ec82-b288-e30c-da2c-7c3997b3208d@gmail.com>
References: <9809112f-4049-e23e-96c9-cf5bb223eaee@gmx.at>
 <6b834eea-c132-f0be-c15d-2f65e7a52168@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <05a5e00d-352d-d614-d87f-acc5198d0bbe@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281213390.29292@home.telenet.be>
 <e8f0ec82-b288-e30c-da2c-7c3997b3208d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281339150.14794@home.telenet.be>



On Thu, 28 Sep 2017, Andrea Mauri via Lazarus wrote:

> Il 28/09/2017 12:15, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus ha scritto:
>> Normally you can, but you will need to copy some additional units from the
>> trunk version of the FPC source repo (in particular, fpexprpars, and
>> fcl-pdf)
>>
>> fpReport is in production use with 2.6.4 as the compiler.
>
> I downloaded fcl-report, fcl-pdf, fpexprpars from FPC trunk and fpreport.
> When I try to compile lclfpreport package I got:
> cfgfpreportimageexport.pp(24,42) Fatal: Cannot find fpreport used by 
> cfgfpreportimageexport of package lclfpreport.

Sounds like a misconfigured path.
Hard to debug, because there is also the 8.3 filename support that
interferes. How I cursed that while developing fpreport !! :/

Michael.

From aaa5500 at ya.ru  Thu Sep 28 14:35:38 2017
From: aaa5500 at ya.ru (Alexey)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:35:38 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] MainMenu dropped to the left, Win bug?
Message-ID: <6b4c1d61-0ebf-d9ce-b009-e45ad9ae7ce2@ya.ru>

User reported this bug here:

https://github.com/Alexey-T/CudaText/issues/1101

-- 
Regards,
Alexey


From michael at freepascal.org  Thu Sep 28 14:37:43 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:37:43 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] MainMenu dropped to the left, Win bug?
In-Reply-To: <6b4c1d61-0ebf-d9ce-b009-e45ad9ae7ce2@ya.ru>
References: <6b4c1d61-0ebf-d9ce-b009-e45ad9ae7ce2@ya.ru>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281437250.18622@home.telenet.be>



On Thu, 28 Sep 2017, Alexey via Lazarus wrote:

> User reported this bug here:
>
> https://github.com/Alexey-T/CudaText/issues/1101

That can happen if OS decides there is not enough room on the right ?

Michael.

From dezlov at gmail.com  Thu Sep 28 15:32:40 2017
From: dezlov at gmail.com (Denis Kozlov)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:32:40 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] MainMenu dropped to the left, Win bug?
In-Reply-To: <6b4c1d61-0ebf-d9ce-b009-e45ad9ae7ce2@ya.ru>
References: <6b4c1d61-0ebf-d9ce-b009-e45ad9ae7ce2@ya.ru>
Message-ID: <a14a8a86-ae4d-b900-0754-d91071d04b0c@gmail.com>

On 28/09/2017 13:35, Alexey via Lazarus wrote:
> User reported this bug here:
>
> https://github.com/Alexey-T/CudaText/issues/1101

Maybe a "handedness" setting?

https://www.top-password.com/blog/fix-windows-10-opens-right-click-context-menu-to-left-side/

Denis

From md at delfire.net  Thu Sep 28 15:35:40 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:35:40 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Kitto2 for Rich Internet Applications
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeb+WvjUR5SCGOVR+ute1vusLbSVo0eoXd7f0iS3cbfFBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I would like to know if anybody here has already used Kitto2
https://github.com/EtheaDev/kitto2
This project used or was based on the old ExtPascal.

My question is because this project compiles only in Delphi and maybe
somebody here has already ported to FPC or thought on it.

I opened an issue there https://github.com/EtheaDev/kitto2/issues/2 about this.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From michael at freepascal.org  Thu Sep 28 15:43:02 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:43:02 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] Kitto2 for Rich Internet Applications
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeb+WvjUR5SCGOVR+ute1vusLbSVo0eoXd7f0iS3cbfFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeb+WvjUR5SCGOVR+ute1vusLbSVo0eoXd7f0iS3cbfFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281541570.21358@home.telenet.be>



On Thu, 28 Sep 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I would like to know if anybody here has already used Kitto2
> https://github.com/EtheaDev/kitto2
> This project used or was based on the old ExtPascal.
>
> My question is because this project compiles only in Delphi and maybe
> somebody here has already ported to FPC or thought on it.
>
> I opened an issue there https://github.com/EtheaDev/kitto2/issues/2 about this.

Kitto2 is a dead end, just as ExtPascal was.

Nevertheless, now that Embarcadero embraced it, I doubt they will consider
porting to FPC.

Michael.

From md at delfire.net  Thu Sep 28 16:14:54 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 11:14:54 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Kitto2 for Rich Internet Applications
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281541570.21358@home.telenet.be>
References: <CA+ixmeb+WvjUR5SCGOVR+ute1vusLbSVo0eoXd7f0iS3cbfFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281541570.21358@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeZ141TG=9TbDYHUKxQva6gB790voxFXd32EZb4EsghL9A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 28 Sep 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to know if anybody here has already used Kitto2
>> https://github.com/EtheaDev/kitto2
>> This project used or was based on the old ExtPascal.
>>
>> My question is because this project compiles only in Delphi and maybe
>> somebody here has already ported to FPC or thought on it.
>>
>> I opened an issue there https://github.com/EtheaDev/kitto2/issues/2 about
>> this.
>
>
> Kitto2 is a dead end, just as ExtPascal was.

They removed ExtPascal from it... but I've never tried Kitto2.

> Nevertheless, now that Embarcadero embraced it, I doubt they will consider
> porting to FPC.

The author have no objections...
But if you say that FPC already has something better (December,
right?), I'll choose fcl-web, of course.

(and I do not saying that I will use Kitto2... was just to know)

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

From michael at freepascal.org  Thu Sep 28 16:43:04 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 16:43:04 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] Kitto2 for Rich Internet Applications
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeZ141TG=9TbDYHUKxQva6gB790voxFXd32EZb4EsghL9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeb+WvjUR5SCGOVR+ute1vusLbSVo0eoXd7f0iS3cbfFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281541570.21358@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeZ141TG=9TbDYHUKxQva6gB790voxFXd32EZb4EsghL9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281640110.23324@home.telenet.be>



On Thu, 28 Sep 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
> <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 28 Sep 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I would like to know if anybody here has already used Kitto2
>>> https://github.com/EtheaDev/kitto2
>>> This project used or was based on the old ExtPascal.
>>>
>>> My question is because this project compiles only in Delphi and maybe
>>> somebody here has already ported to FPC or thought on it.
>>>
>>> I opened an issue there https://github.com/EtheaDev/kitto2/issues/2 about
>>> this.
>>
>>
>> Kitto2 is a dead end, just as ExtPascal was.
>
> They removed ExtPascal from it... but I've never tried Kitto2.

What I meant is that I believe the architecture is simply wrong.

>> Nevertheless, now that Embarcadero embraced it, I doubt they will consider
>> porting to FPC.
>
> The author have no objections...
> But if you say that FPC already has something better (December,
> right?), I'll choose fcl-web, of course.

I believe it is better, yes.

We managed to convince a major component developer of this, 
so we're not alone in this belief :)

Michael.

From md at delfire.net  Thu Sep 28 17:06:01 2017
From: md at delfire.net (Marcos Douglas B. Santos)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:06:01 -0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Kitto2 for Rich Internet Applications
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281640110.23324@home.telenet.be>
References: <CA+ixmeb+WvjUR5SCGOVR+ute1vusLbSVo0eoXd7f0iS3cbfFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281541570.21358@home.telenet.be>
 <CA+ixmeZ141TG=9TbDYHUKxQva6gB790voxFXd32EZb4EsghL9A@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281640110.23324@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <CA+ixmeaEXU2ymNgewUqJgwAPunAh-EvE6nHUhUG7sc0RxnmtXg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 28 Sep 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
>
>>[...]
>> But if you say that FPC already has something better (December,
>> right?), I'll choose fcl-web, of course.
>
>
> I believe it is better, yes.
>
> We managed to convince a major component developer of this, so we're not
> alone in this belief :)

WOW! Good to know. Thanks Michael.

Regards,
Marcos Douglas

From mschnell at lumino.de  Fri Sep 29 10:20:35 2017
From: mschnell at lumino.de (Michael Schnell)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 10:20:35 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Kitto2 for Rich Internet Applications
In-Reply-To: <CA+ixmeb+WvjUR5SCGOVR+ute1vusLbSVo0eoXd7f0iS3cbfFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+ixmeb+WvjUR5SCGOVR+ute1vusLbSVo0eoXd7f0iS3cbfFBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a8482c79-c215-9f19-7d31-f9dba1236e1f@lumino.de>

On 28.09.2017 15:35, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote:
> https://github.com/EtheaDev/kitto2
Seems like an interesting project.

I once did some rather successful tests with ExtPascal but gave up as 
ExtPascal seemed to be dead.

Now at -> http://www.ethea.it/eng_news.htm we read: "September 2017: 
Kitto^2 and Kide^2 released under Open Source license!"

So trying it with fpc/Lazarus seems viable.

-Michael
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From janusz.chmiel at volny.cz  Fri Sep 29 17:59:37 2017
From: janusz.chmiel at volny.cz (Mgr. Janusz Chmiel)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 17:59:37 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Accessibility enhacement request Lazarus version 1.7
Message-ID: <a8e3b441-d870-3e68-09a2-487874034a7a@volny.cz>

Dear specialists,
My name is Janusz Chmiel. I Am visually impaired user of Lazarus. My 
dream is to use yours development environment to create professional 
Android applications. But to make not only my dream to come true, it is 
necessary to find out, if editable field for editing source code can be 
make screen reader compatible.
I AM ready to even test bleeding edge code from SVN. My only one 
question is, if it is possible tomake this component accessible.
Because in general, Lazarus IDE is quite accessible. But The biggest 
accessibility issue is editable field for writing and editing source code.
Any advice will be very welcomed. I will do my best with The cooperation 
with engaged developers to make yours product accessible for visually 
impaired programmer.
I Am advanced user so I AM really ready to constructively help in this 
problem not only by submitting it,but I will cooperate with you on A 
solution.
Thank you very much for yours time and help to The visually impaired 
users of Lazarus.
With The warmest regards.
Mgr. Janusz Chmiel, Brno.


From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Fri Sep 29 21:53:38 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 20:53:38 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] fpReport - can not render pagefooter
In-Reply-To: <05a5e00d-352d-d614-d87f-acc5198d0bbe@gmail.com>
References: <9809112f-4049-e23e-96c9-cf5bb223eaee@gmx.at>
 <6b834eea-c132-f0be-c15d-2f65e7a52168@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <05a5e00d-352d-d614-d87f-acc5198d0bbe@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6d27cc0c-8ce9-9fd7-0492-767b171310f2@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-28 11:05, Andrea Mauri via Lazarus wrote:
> What are the minimum requirements to use fpreport?
> Can I use it with laz 1.6.2 and fpc 3.0.0?

I don't track the lazarus version I use, but I'm using fpreport (from 
FPC Trunk) with FPC 2.6.4.

On a side note:
   I did notice recently that there was some FPC Trunk changes of 
fpReport that breaks FPC 2.6.4 support, but it was a single IFDEF to fix 
the issue locally. I'll submit a patch for that tomorrow on Mantis.


Regards,
   Graeme

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

From mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk  Fri Sep 29 21:55:38 2017
From: mailinglists at geldenhuys.co.uk (Graeme Geldenhuys)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 20:55:38 +0100
Subject: [Lazarus] fpReport - can not render pagefooter
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281339150.14794@home.telenet.be>
References: <9809112f-4049-e23e-96c9-cf5bb223eaee@gmx.at>
 <6b834eea-c132-f0be-c15d-2f65e7a52168@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <05a5e00d-352d-d614-d87f-acc5198d0bbe@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281213390.29292@home.telenet.be>
 <e8f0ec82-b288-e30c-da2c-7c3997b3208d@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709281339150.14794@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <89c87f06-83d7-4f20-fdcb-762c4e01b2c8@geldenhuys.co.uk>

On 2017-09-28 12:40, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
> because there is also the 8.3 filename support that
> interferes.

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about those platforms. :-/

Regards,
   Graeme


From vojtech.cihak at atlas.cz  Sat Sep 30 02:59:29 2017
From: vojtech.cihak at atlas.cz (=?utf-8?q?Vojt=C4=9Bch_=C4=8Cih=C3=A1k?=)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 02:59:29 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] =?utf-8?q?UTF8Tools_problem?=
Message-ID: <20170930025929.17A34D5B@atlas.cz>

Hi,
 
I have this code for improved autocomplete of TCombo:
 
var i, aCharMatch, aIndex: Integer;
    aCmbText, aItemStr: TUTF8Scanner;
    aStr: string;
begin
  with TStringGrid(TComboBox(Sender).Parent) do
    if TComboBox(Sender).ItemIndex>=0
      then Cells[Col, Row]:=TComboBox(Sender).Items[TComboBox(Sender).ItemIndex]  { item matched by Combo }
      else 
      begin  { try match item by UTF8Scanner }
        if TComboBox(Sender).Items.Count>0 then
          begin
            aIndex:=0; 
            aStr:=UTF8lowercase(trim(TComboBox(Sender).Text));
            if aStr<>'' then
              begin
                aCmbText:=TUTF8Scanner.Create(aStr);
                aItemStr:=TUTF8Scanner.Create;   
                aCharMatch:=1;
                for i:=0 to TComboBox(Sender).Items.Count-1 do
                  begin
                    aItemStr.UTF8String:=UTF8lowercase(TComboBox(Sender).Items[i]);
                    while (not aCmbText.Done) and (not aItemStr.Done) do
                      begin
                        if aCmbText.Next=aItemStr.Next then
                          if aCmbText.CharPos>aCharMatch then
                            begin
                              inc(aCharMatch);
                              aIndex:=i;
                            end;
                      end;
                    aCmbText.Reset;
                  end; 
                aCmbText.Free;
                aItemStr.Free;   
              end;
            TComboBox(Sender).ItemIndex:=aIndex;
            Cells[Col, Row]:=TComboBox(Sender).Items[aIndex];
          end;
      end;               
 
It uses UTF8tools http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/UTF8_Tools by Theo.
I tried to compile project after while (few month) and I have got this error message:
 
unicodeinfo.pas(1180,53) Error: Wrong number of parameters specified for call to "UnicodeToUtf8"
Error: Found declaration: UnicodeToUtf8(PChar;PUnicodeChar;Int64):Int64;
 
Question is: How can I repair unicodeinfo.pas? Or better, can I do the same job without UTF8Tools package?
 
Thanks for help,
 
V.

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From friess at gmx.at  Sat Sep 30 09:18:19 2017
From: friess at gmx.at (Andreas =?UTF-8?B?RnJpZcOf?=)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 09:18:19 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] fpReport - can not render pagefooter
In-Reply-To: <XN0kvl1l55uw38y000@mail.gmx.net>
References: <9809112f-4049-e23e-96c9-cf5bb223eaee@gmx.at>
 <6b834eea-c132-f0be-c15d-2f65e7a52168@geldenhuys.co.uk>
Message-ID: <XN0kvl1l55uw38y000@mail.gmx.net>

Is it possible to make a FAQ for fpreport ?

Regards
 Andreas

Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:

> On 2017-09-27 09:38, Andreas Frieß via Lazarus wrote:
> > What is my mistake of understanding ?
> 
> You made a couple of mistakes and highlighted a bug in the PDF
> exporter.
> 
> Mistakes:
> 
... 
> 
> Regards,
>    Graeme



From juha.manninen62 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 30 09:27:02 2017
From: juha.manninen62 at gmail.com (Juha Manninen)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 10:27:02 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] UTF8Tools problem
In-Reply-To: <20170930025929.17A34D5B@atlas.cz>
References: <20170930025929.17A34D5B@atlas.cz>
Message-ID: <CAPN1EhD_TEcz5xuKWYACMAYVdF89+2VE2y0CMKuNDy0kcARadg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 3:59 AM, Vojtěch Čihák via Lazarus
<lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> unicodeinfo.pas(1180,53) Error: Wrong number of parameters specified for
> call to "UnicodeToUtf8"
>
> Error: Found declaration: UnicodeToUtf8(PChar;PUnicodeChar;Int64):Int64;

I downloaded UTF8tools from the wiki page and compiled it without problems.
I don't see UnicodeToUtf8 with 3 parameters anywhere. LazUTF8 has 2 versions:
 function UnicodeToUTF8(CodePoint: cardinal): string; // UTF32 to UTF8
 function UnicodeToUTF8(CodePoint: cardinal; Buf: PChar): integer; //
UTF32 to UTF8

> Question is: How can I repair unicodeinfo.pas?

unicodeinfo.pas looks OK. You have another version of UnicodeToUtf8()
coming from somewhere.

> Or better, can I do the same job without UTF8Tools package?

Unit LazUnicode has iterators for both codepoints and Unicode "characters".

Juha

From michael at freepascal.org  Sat Sep 30 09:43:27 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 09:43:27 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] fpReport - can not render pagefooter
In-Reply-To: <XN0kvl1l55uw38y000@mail.gmx.net>
References: <9809112f-4049-e23e-96c9-cf5bb223eaee@gmx.at>
 <6b834eea-c132-f0be-c15d-2f65e7a52168@geldenhuys.co.uk>
 <XN0kvl1l55uw38y000@mail.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709300941470.26295@home.telenet.be>


Sure.

You can add pages to the wiki about fpreport:

http://wiki.freepascal.org/FPReport

I suggest adding a new page

http://wiki.freepascal.org/FPReport_FAQ

and linking to it from the main page. 
But don't add the FAQ directly in the main page itself.

Michael.

On Sat, 30 Sep 2017, Andreas Frieß via Lazarus wrote:

> Is it possible to make a FAQ for fpreport ?
>
> Regards
> Andreas
>
> Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:
>
>> On 2017-09-27 09:38, Andreas Frieß via Lazarus wrote:
>>> What is my mistake of understanding ?
>>
>> You made a couple of mistakes and highlighted a bug in the PDF
>> exporter.
>>
>> Mistakes:
>>
> ...
>>
>> Regards,
>>    Graeme
>
>
>

From vojtech.cihak at atlas.cz  Sat Sep 30 14:38:24 2017
From: vojtech.cihak at atlas.cz (=?utf-8?q?Vojt=C4=9Bch_=C4=8Cih=C3=A1k?=)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 14:38:24 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] =?utf-8?q?UTF8Tools_problem?=
In-Reply-To: 000000007d58000091d4013a502f
References: <20170930025929.17A34D5B@atlas.cz> 000000007d58000091d4013a502f
Message-ID: <20170930143824.2BE10CC9@atlas.cz>

Thanks, I had old version of UTF8Tools which didn't have LazUTF8 in "uses" so it poited to FPC's:
 
function UnicodeToUtf8(Dest: PChar; Source: PUnicodeChar; MaxBytes: SizeInt): SizeInt;{$ifdef SYSTEMINLINE}inline;{$endif}
function UnicodeToUtf8(Dest: PChar; MaxDestBytes: SizeUInt; Source: PUnicodeChar; SourceChars: SizeUInt): SizeUInt; 
 
Now it works.
 
I'll look on the solution via LazUnicode too, it would reduce one dependency on external package.
 
V.
 
 
___________________________________________________________
> Od: Juha Manninen via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>
> Komu: Lazarus mailing list <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>
> Datum: 30.09.2017 09:27
> Předmět: Re: [Lazarus] UTF8Tools problem
>
On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 3:59 AM, Vojtěch Čihák via Lazarus
 <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
.....
 
 Juha
 -- 
 _______________________________________________
 Lazarus mailing list
 Lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org
 https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus <https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus>

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From aaa5500 at ya.ru  Sat Sep 30 18:42:39 2017
From: aaa5500 at ya.ru (Alexey)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 19:42:39 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Custom component: cannot make Items: TStrings
Message-ID: <02a6c7e9-cba4-6f89-f99d-710b1355b10f@ya.ru>

Hi. I added to ATTabs prop Items: TStrings. It has getter/setter. It has 
registering in IDE.

- in designer, OI can set Items and tabs appear

- if i run app, tabs dont appear- ??

- if I restart IDE, app's LFM looses Items- ??

https://github.com/alexey-t/attabs

-- 
Regards,
Alexey


From r030t1 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 30 19:15:32 2017
From: r030t1 at gmail.com (R0b0t1)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:15:32 -0500
Subject: [Lazarus] Accessibility enhacement request Lazarus version 1.7
In-Reply-To: <a8e3b441-d870-3e68-09a2-487874034a7a@volny.cz>
References: <a8e3b441-d870-3e68-09a2-487874034a7a@volny.cz>
Message-ID: <CAAD4mYhd3ZOURhcgPMGy5rqij=E3RQ2HPoJ8CEX2eMFA2i_FRg@mail.gmail.com>

On Friday, September 29, 2017, Mgr. Janusz Chmiel via Lazarus <
lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org> wrote:
> Dear specialists,
> My name is Janusz Chmiel. I Am visually impaired user of Lazarus. My
dream is to use yours development environment to create professional
Android applications. But to make not only my dream to come true, it is
necessary to find out, if editable field for editing source code can be
make screen reader compatible.
> I AM ready to even test bleeding edge code from SVN. My only one question
is, if it is possible tomake this component accessible.
> Because in general, Lazarus IDE is quite accessible. But The biggest
accessibility issue is editable field for writing and editing source code.
> Any advice will be very welcomed. I will do my best with The cooperation
with engaged developers to make yours product accessible for visually
impaired programmer.
> I Am advanced user so I AM really ready to constructively help in this
problem not only by submitting it,but I will cooperate with you on A
solution.
> Thank you very much for yours time and help to The visually impaired
users of Lazarus.
> With The warmest regards.

Hello Mr. Chmiel,

I have some minor experience working with the visually impaired (usually
not complete blindness). Can you describe the operating system you use and
how you make use of your screen reader for editing? Most readers will not
be familiar with such things.

In the interim, you may want to use another editor for your programming. I
do this myself occasionally but recognize that the Lazarus editor has
better integration with the design workflow.

Cheers,
    R0b0t1
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From vojtech.cihak at atlas.cz  Sat Sep 30 19:20:31 2017
From: vojtech.cihak at atlas.cz (=?utf-8?q?Vojt=C4=9Bch_=C4=8Cih=C3=A1k?=)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 19:20:31 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus]
	=?utf-8?q?Custom_component=3A_cannot_make_Items=3A_TStr?=
	=?utf-8?q?ings?=
In-Reply-To: 000000007d5b0000980c013a505b
References: 000000007d5b0000980c013a505b
Message-ID: <20170930192031.C826BF7D@atlas.cz>

Hi,
 
you have unusual getter:
 
function TATTabs.GetItems: TStrings;
var
  D: TATTabData;
  i: integer;
begin
  Result:= TStringList.Create;
  for i:= 0 to TabCount-1 do
  begin
    D:= GetTabData(i);
    if Assigned(D) then
      Result.Add(D.TabCaption)
    else
      Result.Add('?');
  end;
end;           
 
IMO, when you run app, ATTabs should read Items from *.lfm. But it creates new instance of TStringList instead. New instance is created from existing tabs, therefore it is empty. Even more, you don't Free then TStringList anywhere, there will be many instantioned Results.
I'm not sure with solution, maybe you test csLoading somewhere.
 
V.
______________________________________________________________
> Od: Alexey via Lazarus <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>
> Komu: lazarus mailing list <lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org>
> Datum: 30.09.2017 18:42
> Předmět: [Lazarus] Custom component: cannot make Items: TStrings
>
Hi. I added to ATTabs prop Items: TStrings. It has getter/setter. It has 
 registering in IDE.
 
 - in designer, OI can set Items and tabs appear
 
 - if i run app, tabs dont appear- ??
 
 - if I restart IDE, app's LFM looses Items- ??
 
 https://github.com/alexey-t/attabs <https://github.com/alexey-t/attabs>
 
 -- 
 Regards,
 Alexey
 
 -- 
 _______________________________________________
 Lazarus mailing list
 Lazarus at lists.lazarus-ide.org
 https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus <https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus>

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From janusz.chmiel at volny.cz  Sat Sep 30 19:24:01 2017
From: janusz.chmiel at volny.cz (Mgr. Janusz Chmiel)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 19:24:01 +0200
Subject: [Lazarus] Accessibility enhacement request Lazarus version 1.7
In-Reply-To: <CAAD4mYhd3ZOURhcgPMGy5rqij=E3RQ2HPoJ8CEX2eMFA2i_FRg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a8e3b441-d870-3e68-09a2-487874034a7a@volny.cz>
 <CAAD4mYhd3ZOURhcgPMGy5rqij=E3RQ2HPoJ8CEX2eMFA2i_FRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <afd1d8b7-770e-40a5-4c65-16c11c697772@volny.cz>

Good evening.
It is good idea. I will rather discuss with you out of mailing list.
I Am using NVDA screen reader. This screen reader is very advanced and 
it support many applications. NVDA support applications which are using 
UI automation. So many Windows 10 apps are supported with no issues. I 
Am using Windows 10 X64 bit edition. Standard Home edition. It would be 
perfect, if editable field and also designer would become screen reader 
compatible. But I know, how is it complex to retain visual aspect of GUI 
and making it usable for visually impaired.
I know about other editors. Such as Akelpad. But it is also necessary to 
use form designer for some tasks. Thank you very much for yours interest 
about accessibility.


From juha.manninen62 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 30 19:59:34 2017
From: juha.manninen62 at gmail.com (Juha Manninen)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 20:59:34 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] UTF8Tools problem
In-Reply-To: <20170930143824.2BE10CC9@atlas.cz>
References: <20170930025929.17A34D5B@atlas.cz>
 <20170930143824.2BE10CC9@atlas.cz>
Message-ID: <CAPN1EhDdFAk7VJt2NUmH4vS3=e=awTrEjKCX6VeyujsYLdQhjA@mail.gmail.com>

Ok yes, the function name UnicodeToUtf8 is unfortunately used in both
FPC's libs and in Lazarus LazUtils package LazUTF8 unit. It will cause
confusion also in the future.

Juha

From aaa5500 at ya.ru  Sat Sep 30 20:30:31 2017
From: aaa5500 at ya.ru (Alexey)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 21:30:31 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Custom component: cannot make Items: TStrings
In-Reply-To: <20170930192031.C826BF7D@atlas.cz>
References: <20170930192031.C826BF7D@atlas.cz>
Message-ID: <ca31c929-39b3-1ff4-2183-2f94324d09b3@ya.ru>

On 30.09.2017 20:20, Vojtěch Čihák via Lazarus wrote:
> ATTabs should read Items from *.lfm. But it creates new instance of 
> TStringList instead. New instance is created from existing tabs, 
> therefore it is empty.

I changed getter. it uses now FTabItems (field) and fills it on each 
GetItems. But it don't help...

-- 
Regards,
Alexey


From michael at freepascal.org  Sat Sep 30 21:44:23 2017
From: michael at freepascal.org (Michael Van Canneyt)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 21:44:23 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Lazarus] Custom component: cannot make Items: TStrings
In-Reply-To: <02a6c7e9-cba4-6f89-f99d-710b1355b10f@ya.ru>
References: <02a6c7e9-cba4-6f89-f99d-710b1355b10f@ya.ru>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709302139080.30027@home.telenet.be>



On Sat, 30 Sep 2017, Alexey via Lazarus wrote:

> Hi. I added to ATTabs prop Items: TStrings. It has getter/setter. It has 
> registering in IDE.
>
> - in designer, OI can set Items and tabs appear
>
> - if i run app, tabs dont appear- ??
>
> - if I restart IDE, app's LFM looses Items- ??
>
> https://github.com/alexey-t/attabs

Remove the clear statement in the setter ?

It clears FTabItems, which you just assigned. That's pointless.
Also, if FTabItems equals AValue, it will clear the AValue.

Michael.

From aaa5500 at ya.ru  Sat Sep 30 21:50:01 2017
From: aaa5500 at ya.ru (Alexey)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 22:50:01 +0300
Subject: [Lazarus] Custom component: cannot make Items: TStrings
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709302139080.30027@home.telenet.be>
References: <02a6c7e9-cba4-6f89-f99d-710b1355b10f@ya.ru>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1709302139080.30027@home.telenet.be>
Message-ID: <272f0c5d-48c1-f031-6acf-eac92b8537f8@ya.ru>

On 30.09.2017 22:44, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote:
> Remove the clear statement in the setter ?
>
> It clears FTabItems, which you just assigned. That's pointless.
> Also, if FTabItems equals AValue, it will clear the AValue

hmm, setter don't clear FTabItems, it clear another FTabList [TList].

procedure TATTabs.SetItems(AValue: TStrings);
var
   i: integer;
begin
   FTabItems.Assign(AValue);
   Clear;
   for i:= 0 to AValue.Count-1 do
     AddTab(-1, AValue[i]);
end;

(updated repo)

-- 
Regards,
Alexey