[Lazarus] fpweb for delphi?

[Marco van de Voort]

On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 02:30:19AM +0200, Dimitri Smits wrote:
> >> Yes, I've seen the code. fpWeb has a very tight dependency to other fcl packages. Poor Delphi people. ;)
> >
> > serve's'em right... what's that old saying? ya get what ya pay for? i think 
> > getting a whole lot more for free is much better... wonder what it costs to get 
> > the full sources to delphi? :lol: :P
> 
> where everybody gets the idea that Delphi does not provide web frameworks,
> I don't get.  Websnap, other frameworks, standard Apache mod projecttypes
> (templates) for 1.3, 2.0 and 2.2, CGI...

Usually only in the more expensive editions. I'd have to fork out EUR1000 or
so to update my radstudio pro for that one web-related project once in a
while.

But there is a point that there are 3rd party vendors. I've used them in the
past. They are good, cheaper and more flexible.
 
> On the other hand, why anybody would want to develop new webapps (on new
> db's) in delphi or fpc for that matter seems a bit like a
> one-tool-in-my-toolbox mindset.  "If all you have/know is a hammer, every
> problem looks like a nail."

One could also say the same about PHP.
 
> There are other languages far more suited for webdevelopment! PHP, Perl,
> Ruby(-on-rails), java, silverlight.net, ...  Especially when the
> client(s)/user(s) use small webhosting. 

Java, silverlight.net on small hosting? Less than CGI?

Ruby is even more an white elephant. NEver saw a commercial hoster offer
RoR. (sure if I go to the Ruby site I find a few), but it is not THAT
mainsteram.

>< While you may find that they
> offer php AND CGI, you may not find out the (processor)architecture or
> flavor of linux so that you even CAN compile your CGI, let alone run it
> safely on the hosting provider's machine(s).  

The chance that the hoster's CPU is FPC compatible, the hoster allows CGI is
vastly higher than a small hoster supporting silverlight.net, even fullblow
Java J2EE, Perl or Ruby.

That leaves PHP. Which is good for small stuff, but I wouldn't like having
it write to mission critical databases. PHP is only used for small potatoe
and frontends. (leaving a service to do the real work).

Therefore I think Delphi/FPC is more a competitor for C#/Java application
servers on larger hosting offerings. But if you are doing it already, why
not use it for small stuff too?

> You only sometimes have (a somewhat limited) shell access to their machine
> anyway.  And as for a "product", you need to use the greatest common
> denominator anyway.  So that pretty much leaves you with php anyway ;-)

It leaves you with an account not suitable for any development, only for
hosting existing PHP packages with minor extensions.  But that is a
different discussion (PHP is counted as web development language while often
only existing packages are installed)
 
> And there IS a Delphi4PHP out there (from
> Embarcadero/CodeGears/Borland/Inprise/...).  

So? Totally unrelated product.

> the Qooxdoo open source framework.  In fact, they have re??mplemented a
> large part of the VCL in javascript so that you can transfer your skills
> in Delphi VCL (the objectpascal framework) to there without knowing much
> javascript.

What I have seen from it, if you have a need THAT leve of similarity, you
were never a Delphi programmer to begin with :-)

It's trivial. Even the other ugly ducking in the stable, Oxygene/Prism is
more elegant and compatible. (and that says a lot coming from me)